We have moved to a new server (again)

Discussion in 'News' started by CyberKiller, Jul 2, 2015.

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  1. McGyver

    McGyver Experimental Pedagogue

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    Nobody is going to be happy with the performance of an emp server in yet another VM.
    Thanks for the advice and I have one for you too, you better get a more friendly attitude going if you plan to stay on this forum.
     
  2. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    Eh, going by a very long forum experience, thats not much of a requirement at all..
     
  3. Cokemonkey11

    Cokemonkey11 Member

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    It sounds to me like you just don't have anyone competent as a server administrator to maintain actual secure, redundant, reliable data and access control.

    Essentially you have three options -

    a) Use windows on the basis that probability of error is low

    b) Use linux naively because you heard somewhere that linux is good. High probability of unfamiliar user breaking something.

    c) Sandbox data, set up a CI server, use account access control, and maintain disk redundancy, then have mathematical guarantees about the security, reliability, consistency, and availability of your system.

    You're choosing a because you're either too lazy or too ignorant to use c.

    There's no excuse not to. You're taking unnecessary risks under the false guise of time saved.

    Bullshit.

    Essentially every competitive valve game server (CSGO MM & cevo, Dota 2, etc) are hosted on VM's. VM's are efficient because i386 is microcode in x86-64, and modern x86-64 processors have hardware support for hypervision and instruction bypass.

    The performance from the client's perspective would be identical. In the worst case it might run a little hotter.

    I'm not here to make friends.
     
  4. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    good posts
     
  5. A-z-K

    A-z-K Member

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    ::deep breath::

    OS choice is not nearly as important as proper config & usability.
    In this case Windows is the obvious choice.

    The benefits of one OS over another are marginal supposing reasonable effort is made to adhere to best practices.

    Ohh and let people run their server however they want to.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  6. Candles

    Candles CAPTAIN CANDLES, DUN DUN DUN, DUN DUN DUN DUN.

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    Okay, you got me. At first I thought you were serious, but there's literally no way anyone could use that line seriously outside of a reality TV show.

    ...Unless Empires is actually secretly America's Next Top Bachelorette: Survivor Edition.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  7. Cokemonkey11

    Cokemonkey11 Member

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    If you take out the part about windows being an obvious choice, I think this is a lot more fair than some previous assertions. Windows is just an easy/lazy choice.

    The thing is, this has affected you - your webserver was down for quite a while. It's not the end of the world, but what if next time it takes a week to bring back up?

    Good system administration is a core part of any good software development methodology. If I'm honest, I think you guys at empires are ahead of the curve compared to other small team game developers, so I don't want you to get the idea that you're doing everything wrong.

    I just want to seed the thought that solutions are available and obtainable.
     
  8. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    It fits doesnt it? There is tension, dwindling count of participators, there is drama, we just lack interviews.
    Yeah all those gyver and teef posts that would have been made in that time will be dearly missed.
     
  9. CyberKiller

    CyberKiller Nyooks!

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    I can't remember if it's x86 or x64 that you can get SEH unwinding linux compilers for now. (one of them is still patented by borland for a couple more years)

    Apache is already sandboxed into it's own environment using it's own user account permissions, furthermore, php on each website on the server is sandboxed by it's self with individual open_basedirs and other php environment dirs.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  10. Cokemonkey11

    Cokemonkey11 Member

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    Only x86 uses a stack for exception handling - essentially every other architecture including AMD64 uses a table.

    Very good. Maybe I was unclear before - I am talking about sandboxing account access. If you have empires server and compiler running on windows VM's, and a user with restricted permissions connects to them remotely, they can't damage the host configuration.

    If they damage the configuration of the virtual machine, the maintainer for the host machine should be able to just run a CI upgrade or spin up a new VM.

    Sorry if that doesn't make sense - I'm not much of a sysadmin myself.
     
  11. Metruption

    Metruption Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  12. Señor_Awesome

    Señor_Awesome Member

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    Wait, really? I think Ranger interviewed me the other week...

    Suggestion c is nice if we were a business that absolutely relied on constant up time. We are not. Small inconveniences are never really worth a system restructure - and just because you can't see any potential problems with doing something like what you suggest doesn't mean there won't be any that would need sorting out.
     
  13. DocRabbit

    DocRabbit Member

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    Guys,

    Why you guys telling them how to run their server. If you help them fund it, then maybe you would have the right to question how they do it.
     
  14. Cokemonkey11

    Cokemonkey11 Member

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    Yeah that's fair. It's my experience that getting used to better practices will save you time as well for maintenance - even if nothing goes wrong.

    I don't think Empires takes donations. Even if they did, I disagree with you. Donating to free projects is not the same as being a shareholder.

    If you start donating to projects with the intention of getting power, you're gonna have a bad time.
     
  15. 101010

    101010 Member

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    Just wanted to say thank you to who ever is hosting / funding hosting for us now.
    I don't care what OS you decide to host on. I'm just happy it's being hosted.
     
  16. Metruption

    Metruption Member

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    wow it just went down
     
  17. CyberKiller

    CyberKiller Nyooks!

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    I forgot to check if anyone was using the empires server before rebooting the server, my bad. :headshot:
    I seem to be done rebooting for now.
     
  18. Señor_Awesome

    Señor_Awesome Member

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    This is definitely my experience too. But I seem to find that when you show up and everything's already in the shit then you're better off fixing it and walking away rather than forcing a change to best practices. :rolleyes:

    Not implying that the Empires hosting is 'in the shit', just saying.

    Also, I don't think anybody here is ungrateful just to clarify for all those saying "what's wrong with you, you don't pay for it grrrr also thank you so much for hosting". No reason to take criticism/suggestions poorly even if it is presented in an unfriendly tone.
    edit: wait an unfriendly tone is a perfectly good reason to take criticism/suggestions poorly.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2015
  19. w00kie

    w00kie Mustachioed Mexican

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    what if the criticism is perceifed as unjustified and the suggestion is pure overkill and introduces other problems?

    I am now asking myself how empiresserver handles low CPU ready times and I hate you for raising that question in my mind, you fooking knobmonkey
     
  20. Grantrithor

    Grantrithor Member

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    So that's why you're chimping out on people using a different OS than you do?
     
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