The major imbalance between BE and NF is based in the heavy tank and the fundamental differences between cannons and missiles. This is a set of suggestions to fix the imbalance, as well as a plan for a less biased research tree that uses the split cannon and shell research idea. #1: Changes to tanks The current system of weapon slots seems to be working but the limit of the single cannon slot on the nf heavy creates a balancing nightmare. In the new system, you fill the cannon spots with slots, so the BE heavy can have 1 3slot Ml or 2 2slot mls BE Heavy : 6 cannon slots, 2 spots 4 ml slots, 2 spots NF heavy: 4 cannon slots, 2 spots 6 ml slots, 3 spots Summery of changes # 2 and 3 Weapons deal 3 types of damage: physics, chemistry and explosive. Armor counters 1 well or both moderately while explosive damage has a large splash but is only good against building. To make this work, the cannon and shells are in separate research trees and the shell must match the cannon. Long version with notes and values. #2: Changes to damage and armor The current weapons only differ in the range and splash, while the damage is relativity uniform. Change the single damage to 3 types: physics (KEP), shaped charge (SC) and explosive. Physics and shaped charge damage effectively identical for the same size shell, have no splash but do a significant amount of damage and will kill infantry in 1 hit if you can hit them. Physics armor stops physics shell damage, while chemistry armor stops shaped charge damage. Composite armor offers equal but slightly reduced protection to both. Explosive shells are slower, deal less damage but have a large splash for taking out buildings. Armor is split to a basic armor that is a significant improvement over paper as a path for a team that is behind in resources or research and specialized (spec) armors are better than the improved but require more research Code: KEP - paper = -5% KEP - absorbent = -10% KEP - physics = -20% spec armors KEP - absorbent = -20% KEP - physics = -35% KEP - composite = -30% KEP - heavy spec =-40% SC - paper = -5% SC - absorbent = -20% SC - physics = -10% spec armors SC - absorbent = -35% SC - physics = -20% SC - composite = -30% SC - heavy spec =-40% Explosive - paper = -15% Explosive - absorbent = -25% Explosive - physics = -25% spec armors Explosive - absorbent = -35% Explosive - physics = -35% Explosive - composite = -35% Explosive - heavy spec =-55% #3 Seprateion of damage and cannons/missiles With three damage types, cannons are no longer limited to a single damage type. A 3 slot cannon can only use a 3 slot shell, while each shell and cannon upgrade must be upgraded individually. Explosive shells are the default for the 105 and 120mm cannons but can be upgraded. Code: Cannons Rail guns (3 slot) (60 shells) -1kg rail shot - physics KEP -1kg frag shot - explosive damage -1kg soft slug - chemistry shaped charge 120mm cannon (2slot, 48 shells) 105mm cannon (1slot, 30 shells) - std. cn Missiles Guided are more responsive Homing have tighter turning radius as well as a much shorter lock on time Improved ml have decreased lock on time but slightly decreased damage. Code: Example homing stats 2 slot homing std. 2sec lock, 80 damage imp. 1.8s lock, 75 damage 3 slot homing std. 1.5s lock, 130 damage imp. 1.2s lock, 115 damage Non stander ed weapons Electrical & plasma - overheat and shorts out tanks, slightly affected by composite and heavy spec armors Bio & chem - kills armor, same as the current idea. Chem is designed to negate the high regen of the NF heavy spec armor, while bio is countered by the BE heavy spec armor. Electrical and emp In order to balance out rails with missiles, as well as to make plasma an effective weapon, I added a second heat bar that measures the amount of electrical charge. Unlike heat, the only weapons that produce emp are rails (when fired), plasma (when fired and when hit) and nukes (when hit). This can be negated by the Advanced shielding upgrade. Unlike the current tree, this tree has more workable research options as well as much more custmizability to tanks while keeping with the current themes already in game. Overall research is less expensive, both in time and resources, has less favoritism to one side.
New Tree for separated cannon and shells Mechanical (45s, 250 res) Code: APD Upgraded chassis → Medium Tank → Artillery Tank → Adv. Chassis → Heavy tank Improved Machining (30s, 100 res) → Improved Armor (30s, 100 res) → Absorbent armor (30s, 200 res) → Hardened armor (30s, 200 res) → 50cal MG (45s, 150 res) → 120mm cannon (45s, 150 res) [2 slot cannon 2.2 cycle, +8 heat] → UML (45s, 150 res) [2 slot ML, 6 shots, +2 heat] Advanced Machining (45s, 200res) → Composite armor (spec armor 90s, 350 res) → Fragmentation shell (45s, 250 res) Gas Turbine Engine (90s, 350res) Electrical (30s, 150 res) Code: Turrets → L2 (60s, 300res) → L3 (90s, 450res) Tracking systems (45s, 300res) → Homing (60s, 350res) → Guided (45s, 200res) Advanced Magnets (45s, 300res) → Rail Guns (60s, 350res) [3 slot cannon 0.8 cycle, +6 heat, +2 emp] → 3 Phase 60s, 350res) Stalls at 70% emp Micro Circuitry (BE only) (45s, 350 res) → Charged armor (90s, 450 res) Advanced shielding (60s, 350res) Counters emp build up Physics (30s, 150 res) Code: High energy physics (30s, 250 res) →Plasma → 120mm plasma (45s, 250 res) lots of heat, some electrical [30 dmg, +4 heat, +16emp, self: +3heat, +1 emp] →120mm charged (45s, 250 res) lots of electrical, some heat [30 dmg, +16emp, +4 heat, self: +3emp, +1 heat] → Nuke tree per 2.24 Projectile Physics (45s, 250 res) – opens 105mm KEP → Reflective armor (spec armor 90s, 400 res) → DUMG → 120mm KEP (30s, 150 res) → 1kg KEP (45s, 250 res) Chemistry (30s, 150 res) Code: Imp. Flagration compounds → Upgraded grenades Fluid Materials (45s, 250 res) – opens 105mm shaped charge → Plastic armor (spec armor 90s, 400 res) → HE MG → 120mm shaped charge (30s, 150 res) → 1kg soft slug (rail shaped charge) (45s, 250 res) Improved Heat transfer fluids → Advanced coolant engine Advanced Chemistry (BE only) (30s, 150 res) → High temperature fuels (BE bio diesel, 45s, 350 res) → SOCC → Chem warhead (BE bio ML) Damage = regen of ablative armor * 45 seconds → Chem MG (BE bio MG) Biology (30s, 150 res NF only) Code: Bio Diesel (45s, 350 res) Organic armor (45s, 350 res) → Ablative armor (Spec) (90s, 450 res) Bio Weapons (45s, 250 res) Can I get some feedback on some of the ideas. Im not sure about the first idea, but if it is workable it may be a way to fix the ballance issues that we are having.
Nickierv: It is just too much text to read. Post your main points in one or two sentences. If people like the general idea they will also read the rest. But in general I don't like massive changes because we already have many problems to test and balance small changes.
You cannot setup tanks to hold all weaponry like that. Basically, there is no difference between them at that point except one can hold nukes, the other can hold rails, and each can only hold that exclusively. All other research is the same capabilities... I like it :D
Fixed the text wall a bit. I was thinking about a 3slot homing ml for the counter to BE rails. If I can figure out the scripts, I may try to make a working test version.
This is...awesome. Nickierv, nice work. I need to finish reading this later, but I think I like the general idea of it. Talk about someone who actually spends time making his suggestions
In my research scripts I made separate trees for cannons and missiles. In order to give NF and BE incentives to research the tree opposite of their affinity, I made a 3 slot exclusive cannon for NF and a 3 slot exclusive missile for BE. A 3 slot weapon is the only necessary original weapon for each side because up until heavy tanks both sides have exactly the same setups on their vehicles (if you get rid of mk2's, which I did). The 3 slot cannon for NF was the siege cannon. It did over 100 damage and more splash than HE with a high arc but weighed a lot (somewhere around 140), generated a lot of heat and had ammunition issues. This weapon could lay the hurt down on bases and their defenders but was not so great against other armored vehicles. The 3 slot ML for BE was a tankbuster AT rocket. It was a ML with limited guided capabilities, long reload times, and extremely limited ammunition - 8 shots, no extra magazines. However, each missile did 200 damage - Sort of like a sudden kick in the balls, but not capable of killing a tank on its own in any timely fashion. Weighing 100, it was an anti-tank weapon designed to be combined with lighter cannons or anti-vehicle machine guns and could give BE some much-needed long-range equipment on their heavy tanks (no more godmode ranged cannons in my scripts, either). When 2.25 comes out you'll all get a chance to see my scripts for yourselves =D
Why do people keep posting number threads. You have access to most balance numbers via scripts, do some changes, get some friends together and play with it, giving us 3 pages of numbers means NOTHING
You and SIP are not forced to post in this thread. If you can't count to 10 you can find a less mentally demanding thread to proliferate on.
Counting to ten has nothing whatsoever to do with changing research times. And there's been a spam of these rubbish threads lately. They don't help.
