The HEMG Imperial Medium Tank

1. That is like grade 7 math.
2. Uhg

Ok. The speed to damage modifier is a function of only the weapons speed. The damaged added or subtracted is therefore constant so long as the weapons speed is constant. Any weapon with a speed of 3000 against an armor with a speed to damage modifier of -.006 will have 18 damaged reduced.

3000*-.006 = -18

This reduction is constant and has NOTHING to do with the weapons damage.

Now lets apply this reduction to a few different weapons

Weapon 1 Does 19 damage and shoots 10 times a second

DPS = (Each shells damage) * (ROF)
DPS = 19*10 = 190

Weapon 2 does 190 Damage and shoots 1 time a second.

DPS = (Each shells damage) * (ROF)
DPS = 190*1 = 190

The DPS for both is 190 before calculating the speed modifier.

Now lets take the speed to damage modifier into account.

Each shot of weapon 1 does 19 damage - 18 which equals 1 for a total DPS of 10. The effect of the speed to damage modifier is to reduce the effectiveness of this weapon by a factor of 19.

DPS = (each shells damage)*ROF = (19-18) *10 = 1*10 = 10

Now for weapon 2 it does 190 damage - 18 = 172 damage.

DPS = (each shells damage)*ROF = (190-18)*1 = 172

This is obviously an extreme example but it shows how different base damages and ROF are effected by the speed modifier. Faster ROF and less damage means a less effective weapon against absorbent armor. In the end Weapon 2 goes from being equal to weapon 1 before the speed modifier to being over 17 times more damaging.

 

http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=4609

That thread should explain it for you. How armor works hasn't really changed since then. You might have to wander through the thread. I never really updated the first page but that thread has about all you could ever need to know about how armors work.

 

Now I see what you're saying, you thought it worked differently. That explains much.

Anyhow, I tested it for the sake of being sure.
A 23 damage missile launcher with a speed of 3000 against absorbant armor, fired 10 times. I'm not really sure what calculation you think is going on, but I assumed it would be (23 - (3000 * -0.0075)), which would output about 0.5 damage. I can't imagine any %-based modifier you imagine producing similar results.

The results of my test:

After 10 shots from my test ML, the first plate was still green.

So far so good. I win! Right?

Just to be sure, I gave it 100 more shots.

...The first plate was still green. :eek:

Maybe it rounds down to 0 from 0.5? I think I'll just be testing a 17 damage missile at 2000 speed, now....

 

Well as usual I don't actually fully read Empties posts as I am fully correct and I missed his thing at the bottom.

"The armor values need testing or dev questioning, since I see no support to say they subtract some damage based on speed alone.
"//damage modifier multiplier based on speed of weapon hitting the armor"

The "multipler based on speed of weapon" means exactly that they subtract some damage based on speed alone. What exactly is ambiguous and suggest otherwise?

Anyways if you don't know how it works, why are you arguing about it? I have scripts in the fucking game, I know what I'm talking about. Your just spouting nonsense about stuff you haven't even tested. There is already enough misinformation around about how stuff works we don't need everyone posting about how they THINK stuff works and acting like they KNOW how it works.

edit: I love you demented. As for it doing 0 damage that seems odd as it should round to 1 if it does round at all. Its really hard to say I can't think of anything in the scripts that would do it but you never know whats lurking in the hardcoded section of empires. Could be damages below 1 just don't apply at all or something. Your calculations are correct.

 

Just a note:
Second test operated as expected. 17 damage missile reduced to 2 damage. Call the Mythbusters.

 

Dude, you never got around to making engines for retards! You should definitely make it.

 

Does the speed of your own vehicle have any effect on the speed to damage modifier.

For example, if I am fleeing, and I am driving away from a BE double rails.

Will I get less damage when he shoots me in the back then when I am driving straight at him(full speed)?

The speed is a relative so...

Let's say I am driving away from the projectile, the projectile has a speed of 2000, I have a speed of 200.

That means that if the speed is relative, the projectile only has a speed of 1800.

I am interested if this has any affect on the speed to damage modifier at all.

EDIT: This would also mean that if you are driving forward, and shooting forward, cannons(don't know about missiles) would do more damage(because they have more speed) then driving forward and shooting backward.

EDIT2: Funny, if this would work - 3Phase, Dual Rails

 

I'm ignoring Simons rubbish.
I've done some maths, and put it in a .txt file.

Anyway, I'm actually working on topic here. Salvo is better.

 

So you know, you forgot to subtract the speed mod from the salvo missiles' damage here:

There's a couple of minor things as well:
You listed their speed as 1600. Should be 1800.
The weapon doesn't wait until the round cycle time has ended before beginning the reload time, so the last round doesn't consume any cycle time. That means 8.8 seconds for UML and 3.42 seconds for Salvo. (At least, that's what I remember; I'll double-check it next time I play just to be sure.)

 

Oh you're kidding me I did, fuck.

I was kinda distracted, it was at school, lots of minimising, unminimising.

The 1600 was from memory, guess I got it wrong.

For the other armors I tested I did take into account the lesser damage per ML, that I know for sure.

 

Does the speed at wich you are moving/driving have any effect on the speed to damage modifier? (considering the speed is relative)

 

Yes, but it's so negligible it doesn't matter, also I don't think the game actually calculates based on true speed, just the speed in the file.

 

Actully i always try to have 1 more on the front becasue i tend to face forward in battle and it is very good to have more armour if u need to retreat and reverse.

 

How many ammo plates on which sides depends on the map and situation.
If I want to park near an enemy barracks and spam canons and missles on them I need no back armor.
When there is little space like on slaughered, where you can only drive forward and backward then I put most plats on front armor.
And for maps with open space or a tank rush I put armor on every side.

 

Reminds me of a time on canyon, this one heavy was giving our team major grief with nukes (we had barely any cash for tanks and the enemy had major research)

Anyway, after 20 minutes of getting our noses punched in by this heavy, I took armor detection.

He had no rear plates.

I took a standard LT and killed a comp heavy with nukes.

It was hilarious, everyone was cheering for me.

 

I never said it was bad weapon so I don't know how you could call it a tie. I simply pointed out how salvo would work comparatively better against armors with higher speed to damage modifier(which is true). You've been wrong this whole thread, and sat here flaming acting like you knew the game inside out when you clearly have NO idea how stuff works. Not only that but you STILL have stuff wrong. The DPS on UML should be roughly 1.7x that of salvo against absorbent.

 

Fixed, there, you grumpy old fart.
Sorry I made a mistake, maybe I should go cut my wrists for making a reasonable mistake.

I like how when I admit I'm wrong (humiliating enough) you still abuse me.

 

You flamed me this entire thread despite the fact I was correct from the beginning. Notice how my first posts aren't inflammatory whatsoever? In fact demented posted how the speed to damage modifier works correctly on the second page. I only started pointing out your lack of intelligence after you were caps spamming demented saying he was wrong, when he was in fact correct. I was simply trying to point out that salvo is comparatively better than UML against comp and comparatively worse against absorbent. (which it is) Hence my first post

"Salvo will actually do quite poorly against armors with - speed modifiers. Of course it will wtfpwn stuff with + speed modifier." (simon)

You somehow twisted this into the idea that I somehow think salvo is a bad weapon when I never once said this.

"So I'm gunna put this down as a logic-tie. I admit I was wrong about how speed affects damage, but I stand firmly by SML as a good weapon." (empty)


I'm not annoyed at all that you are wrong. People make mistakes, I make mistakes. What annoys me is you spend 8 pages arguing about something you clearly don't understand. Empires is already filled with so much disinformation and myths you shouldn't go around acting like you KNOW how stuff works when you don't. Then you try and play it off like I was flaming salvo saying it was terrible and you "just" got the part about the speed to damage modifier wrong. If you actually read the thread the only argument I EVER try to make is about the speed to damage modifier and nothing about the overall usefulness of salvo.

There was no "Oh are you sure? Oh I think this is how it works" You were all "RAH RAH RAH I"M RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG. I"M SO SMART."

 

going back to the original topic, there is a major flaw with this idea.
With the goal of getting an armored tank in the least amount of time and for the least amount of money spent on research, this is not all that good.
Some nice numbers to work with:
Best case: heavy with physics - 15 min, 4240 res
If heavies are not an option, med with physics - 13 min, 2940 res
Original HEMG med - 15.5 min, 4750 res
Changing 3phase for coolant - 15 min, 4225 res

Unless you get HE cannon, you have a very limited ability to upgrade your tanks. The HE cannon research is going to add another 2.5 min and 775 res to your research, add the time and cost for the heavy and you have a total of 23.5 min and 7200 res.

I can get almost 3 heavies out for the additional cost of your heavy research, not to mention that the team has them 8.5 min faster.

The issue that most people are not addressing is that while HEMG is a good snipeing weapon, it is killed by the 16 second reload time. Seeing as this design has a fair chance of fighting regen armor, all the NF tank drivers have to do is count the shots. Once they get to 30, they have 16 seconds to kill you. While this is not a major issue on the tanks that have alternate weapons, the recharge time can be lethal if it is being used on apcs unless they outnumber the NF LTs.

Addressing your 2 goals for this design
Pressure before they get heavies - no
- You can get heavies in the same time it takes to get this.
An alternative to the heavy in low resource scenarios - no
- other options are faster and less expensive by at least 2 tanks
- the physics med will be slightly cheaper per unit with only ER and an mg

Conclusions
From a time and cost standpoint, there are better research paths.


you may want to check your math on the weight, my calculator is telling me that your design is a plate too heavy (12.5)

 

This is why I prefer to have even armor all around my vehicles, if any (I don't armor my jeeps).