Suggestion : Doctrines

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Axeman, Mar 14, 2018.

  1. Axeman

    Axeman Member

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    Background

    For the last 5 or so years there have been a lot of (half-hearted) attempts to port Empires to newer engines, update graphics or gameplay, etc...

    One idea I have had and suggested in the past now seems relevant again given the prescribed vision laid out by a developer here (https://forums.empiresmod.com/index...-vehicle-combat-bringing-back-counters.20365/) . That idea is to add a parallel track of research which I basically call "doctrines".

    Basics

    Doctrines would act as a parallel research track wherein commanders focus on unlocking passive buffs for their team. These buffs would be designed to change how a commander directs his team to play and what strategies the team may use. These buffs would also be mutually exclusive and not-cancelable, meaning that this is not just another research tree to tick off boxes for. Commanders must think strategically about what to research.

    At the same time, these are not supposed to be super upgrades that drastically change interactions between the players.

    Examples

    I do have a semi-working concept, but the numbers and specifics are obviously up for grabs.
    (** Denotes something which is mutually exclusive, IE if you choose this you cannot choose anything else on the same "level")


    Firepower Focus
    **

    >Infantry Firepower Focus***

    +Mortar damage vs buildings.
    +Rocket Launcher splash damage (to make rockets possible anti-infantry utilization)
    +Infantry grenade damage.

    >Mechanized Firepower Focus***

    +Engine Cooling Buff (for more firing, maybe make it like similar to advanced coolant where you have to be still for it to work)
    +Vehicle Weapon Splash Radius
    +Vehicle damage to infantry from grenades

    >Static Firepower Focus***

    +Turret damage
    +Artillery damage and splash radius
    +Infantry damage to vehicles (RPGs, Mortars, or Stickies)

    Mobility Focus
    **

    >Mobile Infantry Focus***

    +Commander able to give multiple targets to units (exact # unknown)
    +Stamina for all infantry
    +Run speed for all infantry

    >Mobile Armor Focus***

    +Carrying weight for lightest vehicles (APCs, AFVs, and LTs)
    +Cooling Speed for lightest vehicles
    +Vehicle Speed for all vehicles

    Logistical Focus
    **

    >Infantry Logistical Focus***

    +Decreased cost for engineers to revive teammates
    +Increased ammo pool (given when spawned)
    +Increased engineer calculator capacity

    >Static Logistical Focus***

    +Health to commander walls when dropped (but maybe not the ability to build them)
    +Increased health for buildings (modest buff)
    +Reduced cost to commander turrets

    >Forward Logistical Focus***

    +Increased health and healing speed for repair pads
    +Reduced cost and increased health for armories
    +Killspawns do not cost tickets (so long as you haven't taken damage for a while)




    Obviously this is a very vague idea at the moment, but I think it could add a nice series of side-grades and commander strategies without being too onerous (just another thing to research) while at the same time not being a "well just get everything" type of gameplay style.

    If you have suggestions for better doctrine effects, trees, names, etc... Please tell me.
     
    Uninspired, Xyaminou and .Oktay. like this.
  2. PwnedYoAss

    PwnedYoAss Member

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    Fuck yeah you posted it. Great idea. 10/10
     
  3. .Oktay.

    .Oktay. Member

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    I love this idea and the good think is, it is possible to programm it on the source engine. the research times should be really high so the commander dont research everything. but i have some problems about this its basicly anouther research and on high pop comms spend all there attention on the field they even forget to research but with 2 research the comm has too much stuff to do. something should make it more comfortably to play commander. anouther thing is if you are the enemy how can you see what the enemy researched like you can see the type of weapons or armor they have but with these buffs is almost impossible. what i think should be added is if a team focus there research on 1 thing like Static Logistical Focus the enemy should get a alert or something where you can see what they researched like the enemy inf have a red aura for 30 sec edit: the devs are focused on something else and even if this is a good idea the devs whould not do it
     
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2018
  4. Ranger

    Ranger Member

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    Would researching these doctrines impede normal research? Are these tiered from top to bottom or are you free to choose whichever you want first? would they have research costs? Did you know Skyrim VR is scheduled for release this April?

    I had a similar idea about commander abilities often identical to those from Command & Conquer Generals. There were several abilities in each tier and you would have to spend points to unlock them. In Empires these points would be earned by team progress calculated by total damaged inflicted to infantry, vehicles and buildings.

    While commander abilities and doctrines do not interfere with each other, it's unlikely that both are implemented, therefore the doctrines could use the same point mechanic to be unlocked. EDIT: (Accidentally posted) You would earn one skill point every 30 team points you accumulated. Perhaps some doctrines could cost more than one point.
     
  5. Axeman

    Axeman Member

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    Yes.


    Hopefully. I had an eye towards feasibility but it wasn't my primary idea. I'm glad its true, but this suggestion has been floating around for years every time a port has been suggested as a way to help keep each side potentially unique if BE and NF were made symmetrical.


    Totally agree. I have no set idea on exact buffs or times though.



    Unskilled commanders abound on the current system and given the removal of targeting, I would say that overall commanding is less stressful than it has been in the past. So long as the research times are long enough it should have almost no impact.

    Perhaps. I am of two minds; on one hand it should be somewhat difficult to tell what doctrine an enemy has as it makes sense that they would be opaque. You can look at an enemy and tell what gun or tank they use but you can't really tell if they have a quantitative strategy, qualitative, etc... just by looking at them. You need to gather intelligence and piece things together.

    Perhaps after a set amount of time (Maybe 3 times the research time of a doctrine) it is revealed what the enemy researched to the team's commander?

    If symmetry ever happens sometime in the next decade this suggestion is just a complimentary one. It's inevitability or lack thereof doesn't particularly concern me.

    The idea is you would pick from each tree but only one (Firepower, Mobility, etc...) and then again within that tree.

    I don't know if they should have costs, I imagine that would depend on balance and require testing. My first thought is not though, due to the snowball effect, the fact you can't undo them, and they would take a long tiem to research.

    My worry is that if you make the commander skills dependent on some skill earned by the team, you just add another reinforcement to the snowball effect wherein teams doing well do even better relatively, get buffs for doing better, do even better, etc... all while the other team is in a worse and worse position relative to the enemy. I think that so much is decided early in the match that we don't want to exacerbate that.
     
  6. MegaMLGgaming

    MegaMLGgaming Member

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    I always thought that missing branch being more economy focuses but i guess it would do good to mix it in like this.

    Offcourse this will change gameplay, but i say we focus on this stuff when se balance everything, when going 3 phase ranged isnt the only option. But thats really hard to do because its already fairly balanced. We just need to get out of the meta.

    Adding this will change empires for the better and add a mystery to what the other team has over the other, and that we dont know the exact research the other comm is going for.

    I like it but devs got a life too. Maybe some day when theyre more free we could hold a poll on what to go for next. :)
     

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