Can anyone suggest some general guidelines on what to research and in what order to research from the beginnig of a game? Im getting tired of losing because a n00b comm decided to research upgraded turrets or railguns or some stupid shit first.
I perfer to research lvl3 turrets first and then arty. With a comm who knows how to effectively use turrets this lets you dominate the early game and then crush them.
its very simple really, see most weapons you upgrade, are more than 2 slots. So aslong as its not ment for an apc, dont bother upgrading weapons since you will atleast need to research medium tank first, and for some heavy tank heres a little list of what to and what not to research at start Physics (DONT BUILD) - Superheated Materials (requires medium tank, heavy tank. Equipped on 2 cannon slots(red) and 2 bullets slots(yellow) ) - Nuclear Fission -> Nuclear Warhead (requires heavy tank. Equipped on 3 missile slots (green) ) - Projectile Physics -> Extended Range Cannon (requires medium tank, heavy tank, artillery. Equipped on 2 cannon slots (red) ) Physics (OKAY TO BUILD) - Projectile Physics -> Reflective Armor - Nuclear Fission -> Fission Reactor and for APC tactics you could build: - Projectile Physics -> Heavy Caliber Machinegun note: this is a 3slot machine gun and is only mountable on an APC. Chemistry (DONT BUILD) - Improved Flagration Compounds (requires heavy tank, could also be used for APC, thats for you to decide, im putting it under dont build. Equipped on 2 bullet slots (yellow) ) - Improved Detonation Compounds -> Explosive shells (requires medium tank, heavy tank, artillery. Equipped on 2 cannon slots (red) ) - Improved Detonation Compounds -> Upgraded grenades (for APC, afaik this requires the 'Improved detonaters' research under Electrical Engineering) Chemistry (OKAY TO BUILD) - Absorbant Materials -> Absorbant Armor - Improved Heat transfer fluid -> Advanced Coolant Engine Mechanical Engineering You can get everything you want in Mechanical Engineering, but it is HIGHLY UNRECOMMENDED to get medium tank and heavy tank without getting any armor and engine first! Trust me on this one, you do not want to go for Upgraded Chassis without researching armor or and engine first. Why? Better tanks are expensive and without a better engine they will overheat very fast and without better armor they are weak. You will lose valuable thousands of resources to shitty tanks, 2 shitty light tanks/ afvs do a better job in most cases. Electrical Engineering (DONT BUILD) Tracking Systems (requires medium tank or heavy tank. Equipped on 2 missile slots) Advanced Magnet Research -> Railgun (requires heavy tank. Equipped on 3 cannon slots) Electrical Engineering (OKAY TO BUILD) Reactive Armor Advanced Magnet Research -> 3Phase Electrical motor Turret something -> Level 2 Turrets -> Level 3 turrets Biology (DONT BUILD) Biological Weaponry (requires medium tank or heavy tank. Equipped on 2 missile slots and 2 bullet slots) Biology (OKAY TO BUILD) Regenerative Armor Bio Diesel Engine So this is just the start of the game, doesnt mean you have to get them all but after getting any armor and engine, go for better tanks, and then go for better weapons, all weapons are very good and always make sure you actually have medium tank or heavy tank to research something like railgun Its always a good idea to build different types of engines and armor, just make sure you dont all do it first, A typical way of researching would be, get 1 engine research from any tree, get 1 armor from any tree, get level 3 turrets, get a better tank chassis, get a better cannon slot weapon and a better missile slot weapon
I personally don't agree with thaile (turrets will lose you the game), dizzyone's on the right track in my list of normal tech tree. First thing I always do is go straight for: Chemistry->Coolant Propertiesthingie->Advanced Coolant Engine; then ->Absorbant Materials->Absorbant Armor THEN Mechanical->Upgraded Chassis->Advanced Chassis->Artillery Tanks Now you have Light tanks (or if you're unlucky) AFVs with armor that is NOT wetpaper and can take several direct hits and with an engine that will DEFINATLY not overheat you. You have artillery that has that very same armor and engine and can with two small cannons destroy up to level 2 turrets in terms of range. If the other commander is a turret spammer (like thaile), then you go into Physics and grab ER Cannons. The enemy commander will be sending out tanks that have inferior armor or overheat VERY quickly if not both! And they certainly don't have the capability to take out your cheap old level 1 turrets. Absolutely no reason to research Heavy tanks. They're worthless. Expensive, attract a LOT of attention by enemy tanks, and their armor, even upgraded, isn't enough to save them due to the speed. The ONLY reason I'd touch a heavy is if it has nukes with adv coolant or biodiesel and absorbant/reflec armor. Medium tanks aren't useful to Northern Faction, but are CRITICAL to the Imperial team. Your AFV has a big ugly blind spot and most players aren't used to playing defensively with them (to use their range to their advantage). So, if you want to drop those hot-dogging little LTs, you need to grab mediums with armor and an improved engine to have any hope of defending yourself.
I agree with dizzyone. I also like to add, on small maps like crossroads I go for Bio to get tanks out fast and for maps like money I'd go straight for composite.
another reason why you might want to go for heavy tanks is the different 2 slot bullet types, dont underestimate these. The BE Heavy tank also is able to get 2 kinds of specialized cannons, one awesome bullet weapon and one awesome missile weapon. No armor or engine will help you own these bastards one on one
Well Revolver turrets will not lose you the game. How can it? Properly place lvl3 turrents will stop everything but a determine tank or nader, but even then it'll hold them up for a while since the range of a lvl3 is longer then the nader can morter, or a person can throw, and the tank would have to arch the shot to hit. Turret research is one of the most benificial things you can research and gives you an immidiate return since the cost of comm place turrets are the same if you place a lvl1 or a lvl3. As for inferior tanks in the same time it takes you to research to arty, I'll have arty already done with for a good 4 mins and have comp and gas turbine engines and well on my way to HE cannons. That's only if you have the resources to research it, considering how most of it will be wasted on armor for tanks that'll just be blown up on my lvl 3 ml's
Thaile: Ever heard the phrase " a good defense is a good offense"? I recommend engine then armor every time. After that you can go for a higher chasis or weapons. It usually works better to get the better chasis then better weapons. But brenodi really do need those medium tanks fairly quick due to NF light tank superiority. my favorite tactic is: biology-->biodiesel chemistry-->absorbant materials-->absorbant armor mechanical-->upgraded chasis-->medium tank-->advanced chasis-->artillery then it's up to you to determine the counter to the enemy: most comms always go nothing but mechanical tree. the only real counter to that is fast weapons such as cannons. Biodiesel should let you run circles around enemy tanks because you wont stall when taking damage. absorbant armor is the best defense against cannon fire, period. so you should excel in tank to tank combat with this setup. regen and artillery is really the best option, it allows you to get knicked by a missle then back up and repair w/o getting out. it's all up to you, but in general, engine/armor FTW!!!
absorbant is cheaper and has an average weight. reactive is heavy. cost should be a consideration in this as well. missles to kill a comp tank vs this tank are similar, but the difference is absorbant/reactive are weak to high damage missles, such as upgraded missle and nuke. luckily no one ever gets those very often. atleast they should lose to this combo by that time. emp_money is a different map though, you have to roll w/ the punches, that map is an exception becasue cost is not an issue and arty are what you need to counter, so yeah comp wins then.
Funny, I havnt ever lost a macth to a com who gets turrets first. I prefer to play smart and get some upgraded small tanks first to control refinerys, which really helps me outtech them. I still use foward barracks becuase you an place it anywhere you've got an engie, instead of the troop having to get it at the VF first.Turrets become so useless as the game rolls on and your opponent has arty. Get your small tanks upgraded so you can control the refinerys and get more tanks/research.
And that is exactly what i was hoping for when i posted this thread. 1 Million internets and Win for you Dizzy! Now this needs to be sticked or something for more people to read. And i dont mind upgraded turrets as long as the comm knows what he is doing. Oh, and believe upgraded turrets start in tracking systems.
turrets always have been just a deterent. keep in mind, the time it takes to even get the ability to get these turrets, let alone rebuild them all, the enemy comm (me) will have upgraded tanks owning the shit out of any tanks you have in the field costing you much footing, and now you have to play catch-up to win. not a good start. abort the fetal position.
Oh jeez. Missiles. Bleh! Cannons ftw. Better accuracy, better damage, more shots. Not to mention MUCH more dangerous in the early-mid, and often late game due to the accuracy of missiles.
Well you're wrong it takes the same amont of time or less to research lvl3 turrets as it takes to research one tank upgrade not to mention that it's cheaper to research by hundreds to thousands. Add to that if you research this in the first 6mins of the game (it takes 40sec to research) you'll find that you have a lot of engineer to build them.
If I am going for a defensive position over an offensive position ( at least 60:40 ) then turrets will be my main research priority then tanks. If I am planning on doing a half and half ( An example would be getting as far ahead on the map as possible and setting up a forward line ) then I will go for Lv2 and then go into tanks ASAP. If I plan on going full ofensive with hardly any defense then tanks and arty will be my main concern. My main research lines also include: Advanced coolant based engine Composite armor ( works great against apcs in my mind) Explosive based cannons and homing missiles On a side note I keep a printed version of the tech tree on my desk for immediate reference ;-) ( trust me, this comes in handy ALOT )
