Remove repair and healing upgrade and replace them with 'improved recharge'

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Chris0132', Jul 28, 2009.

  1. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    I don't really see why we need two skills for repair and healing, nobody uses healing which is pretty silly, so why not have a skill which improves the calculator recharge rate? Causing things to drain energy slower and the calculator to regain energy faster, so you always build/repair faster even with depleted energy.

    Having a single skill which does not improve the speed of doing something but allows you to do it for longer has a few advantages.

    1. It means lone engies can't do anything really fast, but doesn't remove their ability to do things altogether, a lone engy can still set up a rax, he just can't outrepair attackers very easily or do it as fast as he could with repair upgrade.

    2. It makes being a self sufficient engy tanker a bit harder, you can still completely repair your own tank, but you can't do it instantly.

    3. It automatically improves your healing ability slightly because you can heal more people and shortly after building.

    4. It improves all engineer abilities, building, reviving, deconstructing, and healing, which is more interesting I think than just having an engineer be a repair machine.

    5. It's less cluttered on the skill menu.

    Possible downside:

    1. It takes longer to do things, which means you're staring at a structure for longer, however I think as long as it is going at a decent rate, this shouldn't be too boring.
    I don't think there is anything really wrong with the existing skills, so it's not a OGM THIS IS BROKE FIX IT post, I just wonder if this might not be better.

    What do you think?
     
  2. zenarion

    zenarion Member

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    Edit: this would give more power to the engis, something they got enough of already.
    Sure, it would streamline the gameplay, and remove the need of all the different skills.
    But, won't the added versatility just make the engis into the "Swiss Army Knife +3 of Pwnage"?

    It is indeed reasonable to remove the god damn "Healing Upgrade", since i bet nobody has ever used it, for anything but points farming.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2009
  3. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

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    You do if you want to have your partner stand in front of an enemy turret while you heal him for points.
     
  4. Mashav

    Mashav Member

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    I've thought of this before.

    Essentially, It causes building/repairing to be nerfed too much, and only actually buffs revive. Healing doesn't get effected all that much, because healing upgrade doesn't get taken anyways. It also cannot just replace healing upgrade, because then revive, deconing and building get another buff.

    I'll also address your points.

    1. It would take at least 2.5 times as long as it does now to set up a rax for a single engi. It take 100 engi tool with upgrade right now. That means 2x the time for actual building, and the time for the tool to recharge. It also means that rather then 1 engi being able to repair against 1 attack till you run out of ammo, you can only hope to reduce the damage they do until you run out. The speed is far too low for the rest of empires gameplay.

    2. This would just make it take longer, which can be done anyways by adjusting the scripts.

    3. You normally won't run out of healing juice unless you're also reviving.

    4. If it replaces repair upgrade, its actually nerfing building and deconing by a significant amount. As I said before healing doesn't matter unless you also have revive. And if you do remove repair upgrade, then this just becomes a staple skill like hide(that's not a good thing).

    5. Slightly, yes. But 5->4 skills isn't much of a difference

    Downside 1. 2x the time is a significant amount. Having slow game mechanics doesn't work that well in empires(hide crawling). In order to fit slower things into the game, they need a upgrade to make them faster, or all of empires needs to be slower.


    As for making repair upgrade worse and healing upgrade better... I think that If they were actually split into decon/build and repair/heal from decon/build/repair and heal it would work out better. Having to chose between getting structures up, or keeping them up would help make repair less of a "staple skill". It would also mean that you would need 2 skills to drive around, repair your vehicle and build things that the commander drops or build and maintain a turret.


    Recharge rate is something that I think does improve the class, but cannot be on a skill for being too hard to balance within the structure of current empires. I do think that recharge rate (along with decon speed) would make good researchables for engi though.
     
  5. zenarion

    zenarion Member

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    I like Mashav's idea better.
     
  6. Zealoth

    Zealoth Member

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    You cannot change the mortar, then fucking leave the engie.
    I ALWAYS take healing upgrade as 3rd skill.
    Engie got nerfed alot already.
    Enough.
     
  7. Wertbarg

    Wertbarg Member

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    The highest point of value about the current healing upgrade is how quickly you can heal somebody who is injured or actively taking fire; as the game is now, people do not always need healing all the time, one usually goes to heal someone, and by the time somebody needs to be healed again, you are at full.

    Also, in Empires, time is of the essence. by making most (if not all) engineer actions take longer to complete, Empires would become an even more defensive game, and many people say that is a negative.
     
  8. Zealoth

    Zealoth Member

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    Like me.
     
  9. Sirex

    Sirex Member

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    Yeah Mashav suggestion is better. Then it would actaully be a good chocie. Currently the choice, if not girefing, is repair/revive/speed, heal is a nogo. Splitting Repair upgrade would make the engi less ninja capable whic is good.
     
  10. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    i'd personally like the "medic" aspect of the engineer to be removed in favour of everyone is the medic
     
  11. mr_quackums

    mr_quackums Member

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    a suggestion for the original suggestion: you recharge faster and "fire" faster. as it is now, repair upgrade makes it so you repair twice the hp for the same amount of ammo but if it stayed 1:1 then you could double the "fire" rate and recharge rate with interesting results.

    one engi would build a rax by himself slower with improved calculator than with repair (but not too bad because the repair rate would be better when energy ran out) but 2 engies with imp-calc would be as fast than 2 with repair and 3 with imp-calc would be faster than 3 with repair.

    for buildings that take less than ~125 ammo, imp-calc would
    be the same increase as repair plus the bonus of getting you energy back after you are done.
     
  12. spellman23

    spellman23 Member

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    To buff healing it should be changed to make it easier to aim and heal someone.

    I personally don't like changing to a recharge boost. It just makes everything (especially building) longer, and I rarely am out of calculator energy unless I'm revive spamming.
     
  13. Dubee

    Dubee Grapehead

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    I think if they get this skill they also shouldn't be able to drive a tank. That would make them really supportive to the people in tanks and yet not be OP lone wolf tanks that kill a bunch of shit back up behind a wall repair them self's in a couple seconds then return to killing all while being able to resupply the tank.
     
  14. [D3]Leroy Jenkins

    [D3]Leroy Jenkins Member

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    It's good as it is. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
     
  15. mr_quackums

    mr_quackums Member

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    ^but it is broke, no one takes healing upgrade.
     
  16. Zealoth

    Zealoth Member

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    I TAKE IT, STOP MESSING WITH ENGIEALREADY.

    Being revver and healer is only fun for me.

    Go fix mortar, that would be better.
     
  17. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Erm, this would improve your revive ability and your ability to heal while reviving a lot.
     
  18. Zealoth

    Zealoth Member

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    thats my point. people are retarded and instead of healing, revive.
    This shouldnt be the case.
     
  19. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    I tend to agree, but boosting healing too much makes it into a heavy/medic TF2 situation, where riflemen can simply get tanked by engies. They can already do that with turrets and repair upgrade, and I don't particularly like it.
     
  20. Zealoth

    Zealoth Member

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    so if no one takes it, thats not an issue at all.

    You are just trying to mess with engie just for sake of doing it
     

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