http://forums.empiresmod.com/showpost.php?p=27472&postcount=29 I'd just like these ideas to be discussed in this thread. These are features that I'd like to eventually see in the game, but not necessarily be at top of the to-do-list.
Yeah, I have no idea what he means by that tank video. You want tanks to be able to go in slow motion when they get air and shoot the cannon at the same time?
maybe its the graphics of that video, it looked astonishing, why doesnt empires have graphics like that
a heavy vehical with a weak engine irregardless of the tread would not be able to progress up a 40 degree incline. turrets, (effecitve turrets) are expensive as is. the ability to build 'bot' troops would drasticly increase the amount of lag in the game, also would require more programing into an intensive AI system to not only controll themselves, but also vehicals and their abilities. a feat in and of itself. going slow is what crouching is for. sounds are fine at the moment, we dont need the sound to peek out on our speakers at the moment exspecially the way the explisions are constructed. a Sniper is a Scout. there would be no reason to seperate this class since they are one in the same. further more, the classes are supposed to encompase more than just 1 class. to give a customized effect to the player. a 'rifleman' can either be an Assault trooper, urban assault trooper, or infintry support troop. depending on the weapon you have and the choices you make. by making Sniper his own class, what other classes can their be? the Radar facility should just be renamed to 'Communications Hub' that way you do not confuse the two. they are not 'researching' the technology, they are uploading the technical data from their main base. prone would slow down game play emensely. Prone lowers your position, increases your accuraccy and drasticly reduces your speed. being in prone position would give machine gunners the opertunity to dice through infintry far beond that of any standard player. 1 guy would be able to hold off 1 entire team on smaller maps producing an unfun stale mate which would drastily slow down and extend the game. what is so special about that video? the tests that most those videos come from are explicit examples of why the T-80 came in 6th in the Tanks compition. also this is possible to do in the game. medium tank-> scout+speed upgrade->better engine. you get the same effect shown in the video.
I'm saying that the basic engine has a way too poor climbing ability. I mean way too poor. Tanks with decent engines sometimes freeze in those small ramps in emp_escort. Better manouverability should be more easily obtainable. -- Bots should be expensive and limited to 4-6. Also, I've seen as many as 20 bots on some other HL/HL2 mods and it doesn't lag at all. They don't need to be that intelligent, either. They're just supposed to be guards. -- So explain to me why most FPS'ers have both crouch and walk. It's because you want to keep your head up (perhaps you're behind an obstacle, or want to keep your sight on something) but move carefully. What problems would there be with adding this, anyway? -- No, I don't want sounds to make my speakers explode. But they sound very weak. Compare with CS or DOD, the guns actually sound like guns and alone hearing the *bam bam bam* feels good without even killing anything. Seriously, the current Empires sounds make me feel like I'm using peashooters. -- IIRC a scout isn't supposed to be a lonewolf sniper. And that's all it's good for at the moment, as it isn't so often that people use the scout to assist artillery. So, separate the class to marksmanship and reconnaissance, sniper and scout. -- I understand that about the radar. Perhaps it could be available as a map entity? That way it could be put it in maps where it would fit. -- At the moment you can do that just by crouching. And you can quickly move too. I'm talking about making the MGer practically immobile while firing, yet just a bit more accurate so the class doesn't get nerfed. But about proning in general, I think it would contribute to the gameplay. Even if it would slow down the gameplay, the addition of aircraft will probably counter that. And if there aren't aircraft/vehicles available, the map is usually small enough for one to use grenade spamming. -- I meant the way the tank wobbles. I don't remember if it's called that in English - is it suspension?
which game are you refering to which has 'bots'? CS:S? well those bots are Computer AI to fill in Player slots, that way it bypasses a lot of nonsense. Unless if your intending to do this for this game putting in NPC AI troops would lag to death. also, you say 'oh they dont need a lot of scripting, they can just guard.' Isn't that what Turrets are for? Most First person shooter. (starting basicly from Half life) was not to 'increase accuracy' acctually quite the opposit, the Crouch function does not increase accuraccy at all in that game, rather the Crouch function was used to Get around/under obsticals. the Walk function (or slow move) was put in again because of environmental Obsticals, not for aim or fuctionality. running Along a cliff side at full tilt is not the best of idea, just as balancing beam obsticals. it would be impossible to run across certian obsticals in HL if you didn't have walk. Again, walk wasn't majorly introduced untill HL1. the reasons Scouts are snipers in game now is because the Opposit customization isn't as rewarding as being a sniper. Say you spot for arty and they kill hundreds of people because of your spotting. destroy entire bases. guess what you get out of it? Nothing. atleast with a sniper rifle you have the capability to gain you a score and rank. Adding prone all togeather would introduce many more problems than solutions. i doubt you have played Battlefield 2 so you wouldn't know what dolphine diving is. but any way, to put in prone you first have to make an animation of the player prone, an animation of prone player moving, an animation of prone player shooting, reloading while prone, then you need to make animations of player goign prone from standing, from crouching, player standing up, player going from prone to crouching, Also, you must do hundreds of hit box corrections. so that the prone player can be shot, how ever isn't being killed by bullets going over him. also thousands of glitches and bugs and exploits come in because of this. in concept Prone makes you a small target with high accuracy with the con of next to no movement value. how ever if you do things like 'Prone spam' you can elminate the cons making you a very accurate high speed small target which in turn makes you nearly invincable. hit box clipping, collision detection, clipping, again are all things that must be adressed. or else going prone while climbing up an incline would either send you under the map (which could be exploited) or make you invincable as your hit box is hidden beneath the concreate how ever you can still shoot the enemy. you dont need Prone in this game.
So basically you're saying we don't need prone because it would require WORK to correctly implement? Wow. I'm pretty sure that when Krenzo decided to make this game he knew it wouldn't be a simple walk through the park. The whole point of this being in beta is so new things can get put in and be tested for bugs. It's not gonna pop out perfect the first time, and it WILL take some time to get down. The only way this game will become more fun is if new features like prone are put in and aren't half assed. I have no worries about the dev team's work ethics at all, so I don't know why you don't want prone because it will "introduce more problems." Any new feature you put in to a game can introduce problems. That's why you fix them in the beta stages! I'm also sure the dev team (as well as us forum-goers) can think of ways to eliminate shitty bf2 tactics. Not all games with prone are like that anyway. Just make it take a few seconds to get down. VOILA!
Prone has been decided for a long time ago... And I bet the coding for it already has been started as well as the animations... If you say that everything takes to much time... then you would have a bunch of Gmans and a bunch of Kleiners "Ice skating" around all over the place, and tanks would just be plain boxes... As things such as prone add up, it creates for a better game... If you never bother to add anything, then in the end what do you really have? ******ZOMG ON TOPIC :D******** I agree that the engines of the current tanks are way too weak... They can hardly climb small hills, while tanks in real life have no problem (Dont bring up the argument that this is another planet, physics are the same anywhere... and if the engine is powerfull enough to bring that bunch of metal up to speed, im sure the engieers of that world would be smart enough to give it enough tourque and horsepower to overcome a small hill ~15% inclanation) You can consider the AI soldiers as movable turrets with less HP, a sort of a good anti ninja... (Plop a few of them in patrol around the base and that Ninjaneer will meet his doom, ofcourse a normal attack would kill them as easily as arty kills turrets....) Better sounds is a must :D, right now they are quite fine for the beta, but before the game "sails off" to the real world, better sounds would be needed :D
i hope prone isnt abused like it is in battle field,, the first time i played that game everyone would go prone everytime i would shoot at them
The major problem that I see with battlefield 2's prone is that when you dive while strafing, you roll. Which is a good idea in theory, but the person shooting the prone guy is disoriented for a vital second, whereas the prone guy's view is fine.
they would flyin in the air then land on the ground,,(like a belly flop) i dunno it just seemd unrealistic and made it 10 times harder to kill even at point blank range,, but agian that was the first time i ever played it
I always talked about bots, not NPC soldiers. They'd just walk around a few waypoints they'd be given and follow/shoot enemies that they spot. It'd be a whole lot more enjoyable to sneak past a patrolling guard rather than to throw 200 grenades at a bunch of turrets from behind a corner. Turrets are just simple and time taking to remove, bot soldiers would actually be an effective (and cool) anti-ninja defense. Turrets would be frontline defense, whereas bot soldiers would be guards that protect the base from ninjas. There's quite a difference there. And what point there would prove walking WOULDN'T be good in Empires? Spotting still isn't quite much for someone who is supposed to be a scout. That's why I think it should be a separate class that would be entirely dedicated to reconnaissance (and should get points for it too) and/or sabotage. I have Battlefield 2. And I know what dolphine diving is. First of all, this is a whole different engine. Secondly, what Jn. said. Yeah, who needs ANY feature? It's all useless. Let's just play good old Wolfenstein 3D which doesn't have the millions of features that you see in today's FPS games. They aren't necessary.
Don't get all defensive, he had some good points in that post. I personally am indifferent, I probably wouldn't use it if it was implemented, as I prefer to run around like a maniac while people are shooting at me.
"Spotting still isn't quite much for someone who is supposed to be a scout. That's why I think it should be a separate class that would be entirely dedicated to reconnaissance (and should get points for it too) and/or sabotage." if you make Sabotage and reconnaissance Get you points in the First place there would be no need to seperate the classes. again, the Scout is an inbetween Sniper and Spy. How ever, since the 'Spy' customization is not as Rewarding (point wise) as the 'sniper' customization it isn't hard to see why every one uses a sniper rifle. if you put in Scout points for recon, spotting, and or sabotage then more people would play that side or an inbetween (stealthy sniper, or long range spy) instead of just pure sniper. the problem with your 'bot trooper' is that you are pulling concepts from both pools when it doesnt work that way. you are suggesting having the ability to purchause a Bot AI from the barracks (NPC AI) but say that it would be a Bot (Player AI) the problem is, if your using NPC AI it will lag the server as it has to control the production and AI of the troop. although 1-2 isn't sugnificant having multiuple patrols of 2-3 troops quickly becomes noticable. How ever you are suggesting that it is Bot controlled player, which would automaticly spawn free of charge every time it is killed. the AI would then go do its own programed agenda. if you program 'Run around here' then it would. also putting in the 'I see you' 'i dont see you' parameters for bot controlled players is much harder because the player can see an infinate distance. I would personally love to be able to make 'Conscripts' which are weaker troops which follow you around or do your bidding to give more of a feeling of war, 2 NPC armies duking it out while the players controll the tanks and planes. Much like mods in the game Operation Flashpoint which gave you that ability in multiplayer
People please start custom threads for each discussion. I have already set up a prone one (a new one) now. go to that one to discuss prone.
