Something that always bothers me with taking any form of advanced (antitank-)machinegun in a vehicle, is the lack of useful anti-infantry weaponry. So I'd like to see the possibility to mount machineguns in other slots than the usual (yellow) ones. Could be overpowered though if used with the heavier chassis (think 3x DUHMG + DUMG in BE heavy tank), so limiting this to anti-infantry mgs only or increasing the heat output of at-mgs would probably be best. As an alternative it could be limited to at-mgs only, so a vehicle cannot mount more anti-infantry-firepower than before. +mounting mgs on nonstandard slots Pros: -should be easy to code/implement* -more variety in vehicle loadouts Cons: -could be overpowered (vs infantry as well as vs other tanks) Alternatives: -only for anti-infantry mguns (standard, chainguns, .50cal) -increased heat for at-mgs (in non-mg-slots only?) -only for anti-tank-mguns (Bio, DU, HE) *(Could be done by just creating duplicate mg-entries in the vehicle_weapons.txt with type changed to 1, 3 and 4. Results in a lot of items in the vehicle customization interface though.) A question that comes to my mind here is: Is at-mg-damage affected by speed-to-damage-modifier? If so reflective and absorbant would be very good against those. As mentioned above at-mgs have a very good heat-to-damage ratio (about 1:12-16) compared to other weapons (cannons: ~1:5, missiles: ~1:10). Considering that they hit almost every time it shoud be more like 1:4 (so a DUHMG would create about 2.5 heat per shot, with a cycle time of 0.18 => about 15 heat/second). So one would be unable to use a single DUHMG constantly (let alone several) and a BE heavy with 3 DUHMGs would be like the 6-standard-cannon-crap thats already possible :D. The increased heat could be limited to only those mgs wich are mounted to a non-standard slot (again: easy to do using just the vehicle_weapons.txt) so it would still be a viable stand-alone weapon for apcs. Hm.. one thing i forgot in my txt-altering theories is the impact "type" may have on other aspects of the weapon (i.e. gravity-drop, using models for the bullet ...). Well, guess there has to be some code-altering after all.... €: layout changed, alternative: at-mgs only added, typos
What makes you think so? DPS-wise at-mgs aren't really superior to cannons and missiles and they lack burst damage ( so if you have any kind of cover nearby you are normally able to retreat). If you ment the infantry-aspect: That could really be a problem as infantry tends to die very quickly to mass-mg-fire. A possible solution could then be to only allow non-anti-infantry-mgs to be mounted on cannon and missile slots (he, plasma, du).
Code: "HE MG" { "Name" "High Explosive MG" //name given when selecting weapons "Cost" "75" //cost of this weapon added onto vehicle cost "Damage" "14" //damage done by projectile "Speed" "1000" //speed of projectile "Heat" "1" //heat added per shot fired (100 total heat added to vehicle puts it in an overheated status). "Weight" "70" //weight in terms of effects on engine and weight restrictions for chassis "Cycle Time" "0.5" //time between shots If we use the damage-to-heat-ratio of 1:4 it would be "Heat" "3.5". So your triple HE-MG would create 21 heat per second, dealing 84 dps. Results in 630 damage over 7.5 econds before you overheat (with a coolant engine). You used 210 weigth to install these weapons (or for visualization: a ranged cannon (40 dps, 9.3 hps), two umls (66.2 dps, 5.3 hps) and a normal ml (22.9 dps, 2.3 hps) => ~164 dps, 22.2 hps (reload time for mls already factored in) ). Looks fair to me.
Yeah more sence to allow at-mg on other slots. Guys! Maybe with the rebalance cannon thread you could combine at-mg with a cannon that is good against infantry?
u forgot to mention one tiny thing... I BEAT MEDIUMS WITH 1 HEMG IN APCS! the HEMG is a point and click type of wepon, its the most accurate wepon there is and range or defense has no relevance, if u see a tiny piece of the tank u aim for it and u get hits. Now... since as i mentioned this is a point and click wepon the enemys movement has no importance what so ever in terms of dealing damage. explosive MG not only works against tanks, they work vs turrets and buildings effectively aswell. Now if you tripple the dmg on this thing... add it to a heavy.... it would be the most ultimate piece of equipment available. screw guided missiles, this is sniper mode deluxe.
Indeed, you would trade in effeciency/raw power for a lot of accuracy. And if something like this was going to be implemented there must be a change to the mg-values so it doens't run out of control. I suggested an increase in heat-output but other means could also work (lowering overall dps comes to mind). Crunching the numbers a bit, it seems that a damage2heat ratio of 1:4 wouldn't probably be sufficient since in most cases every single shot hits. (Going by the numbers, HE wouldn't even be the biggest problem here but DU with a dps of 40) Multiple AT-mgs would probably be the most viable choice for long-range encounters due to their instant-hit properties. Seems like it isn't as easy to balance it as it appeared at first glance. Problem with cannons is, they can always damage armor and buildings. So any cannon that is viable against infantry would most likely be great against tanks as well (hm... maybe somehing with high splash and a very long cycle time....but that equals to a superior hit and run weapon). With things being as they are mgs are the only vehicle-weapons that don't damage armored targets (unless specified otherwise). This could be altered with code but I don't know how much work is involved here and i posted my suggestion because i thought it would be easy to do as well as adding interesting possibilities. On a side note: I could say "I BEAT MEDIUMS AS GRENADIER", but that doesn't necessarily happen nor does it mean that grenadiers are overpowered (against tanks). It all depends on the situation, i.e. what kind of armor has he equipped, is his tank damaged, does he know I am there and so on. I can see that allowing multiple at-mgs on a single vehicle is nothing to do be done carelessly. But I think it can be done.
Just did a quick test. Fitted a BE medtank wit 3 DUMGs (rewrote chassis so it had 3 2-mg-slots), raised "Heat" on DUMG to 2 (Damage is "8" so 1:4 there) and fired upon a composite-equipped NF heavytank. I took out 1 1/2 armor plates before overheating. HEMG was for some reasons more devastating than anticipated(forgot to alter Heat there), wich i suppose is due to "Ammo Type" "2" (looks like its a multiplier for damage vs armored). €: Ok, another quick test: "Ammo Type" is not a multiplier (it took 21 HEMG shots (21x14=294dmg) to eat through 4 layers of composite (4x80/0.85=376hp) but it looks like it uses the speed to damage factor (1000*0.005*21*0.85=89dmg). This requires further testing Just not today.. *yawns*
You need anti infantry-weapons? Tank weapons that kills infantry: HE Medium Chaingun (up close it rapes you in 1 sec). 3xstandard (use medium Chain instead) Bio missiles railguns (well, they still sux.. but their splash is a bit increased) ranged cannon EDIT: oh and yes! If that doesn't work, drive them over.
Depends on the range. If you have any chance of doing anti-infantry past 20 meters, you want the triple MG. If its all close range, grab the chaingun. Or, you could get double MG + small CG, so your good at close and range. Or research HMG and grab the .50 :D
Since 2.2 the medium chaingun is actually more accurate than the standard mg (or to be more precise: the standard mg got worse). I used adv. coolant engine for the triple-mg-test. Something else i noticed: DUMG has a cycle time of 0.2 but judging from the ammo counter it shoots quite a bit slower (should be 5 shots per second). Can anyone confirm this?
Another idea just came to my mind: Allow antitank-mgs to be fitted on cannon slots only (maybe GL-slot too). Would limit the amount of guns a bit and could give a slight advantage for BE heavies wich are currently somewhat underpowered (when considering guided vs rails).
Why homing? And while ranged has superior damage for its weight, rails seem to still be the no.1 if you go for raw dps (because they fire so quickly and produce less heat). Am I missing something here?
