After havening a good while to cool off about this, I think that the community needs to address the issue of what are commonly referred to as lulforts. While the use of some form of built up fortification is justified, see the middle flag of emp_coast, or as a last stand, see turtling, the issue at hand is having several players, often a quarter of the team, possibly as high as half, run off to an isolated location (non choke point, refinery, area that the enemy base can be assaulted from) and proceed to start setting up there fort. In most instances, this creates a massive imbalance in the teams, as several people are now no longer fighting but still using team slots. Currently, there is no way of dealing with these individuals, see griefer, griefing, other than having a server admin remove them. While some servers have a voteban plugin, this usually requires a large majority of the server to vote to kick. It is reasonable to assume that team B will not vote to remove them, as the fort makers are helping team B by not fighting. The fort makers will not vote each other out. If an individual jumps in the command vehicle and dose nothing or drives it into water/ the enemy base, they are clearly griefing , although the team has a chance to remove them. I am asking that the community to work to develop a response to this, if other find this to be a serious issue. In addition, I would like the server admins who read this to include something in there motd to clearly address this issue.
If you get rid of the so-called lulzforts, then two things will happen: 1-Some people will get +1 happier, while some people get -10 angrier. 2-The same people who build these forts will STILL not do anything, instead finding something else useless and not constructive.
How is this at all greifing? Greifing is actively seeking to undermine the actions of your team. This is akin to when scouts would just sit on hills for entire games doing nothing. Its not greifing, just someone doing what they want to do, regardless of the effect on the game. The example of the CV is only applicable here in a very stretched sense of they're taking up a player slot, that someone more useful could be filling. Are not noobs the same? Do not they take up slots that more useful players could be filling? Also, you specifically mention forts not on any type of useful location. I almost never see this happen unless the commander, and a significant portion agree to do it, in which case its a team decision. Even then they almost always make it around a ref so they can afford more walls. The only thing that comes close to this is when I would make skating rinks on emp_snowbound, and it would always be by myself. Essentially you're calling out for a general banning against lolforters, and those who group around them, but supporting lolforts when they're useful. Please give more specific examples and evidence of what you mean.
This thread actually makes me want to create more lulzforts. we could stick an APC in the middle and everything!
He said he's fine with that though. He specifically mentioned it in the things that are worth defending, and lolforting is a type of defense.
Definitely not a traditional method, but I would still consider it to be griefing under the right circumstances. This is one of those judgement calls, where depending on the intensity and the situation could or could not be considered griefing. Of course, this could be remedied by making mini-wall segments count against your total wall limit.
scouts sitting on hills is laming: refusing to understand how the game as the "bigger picture" works and just doing whatever you like with no intent on being usefull
I try to think of this in terms of how much people are trying, regardless of there success. I have seen new players who just started playing, on several occasions, manage to take sizable portions of a map on there own. People who hold pointless areas are just not trying. emp_coast, 14 or 15 people per team, the teams are relatively balanced. 7 people on one team decide to go into the south house and turn it into a fort. The commander as well as the other half of the team where rather vocal about losing half of the team to holding a point that is of negligible tactical value.
I've seen this and it is retarded. Go play Garrys mod if you want to do dumb shit like that, I think admins should ban or kick anyone walling themselves in for no strategic reason.
I was commanding a game of coast and 7 retards camped the house. Basically turned the 14 v 15 in 7 vs 15. Spent the whole game recycling their walls and spamming them with move orders Not much action can be done about it, those idiots will leave the community soon enough Oh and nick was on my team, just read his post
That's why I'm saying its a judgement call. The people walling in the house on coast deserve a kick/ban, while you walling in the tropicvendetta flag don't.
