How have the weapons actualy been modified, and what does it Mean?

This post has been edited because the information posted was baised off a false damage fall off formula.

Lets actual examine the changes to the weapons,

I will start with the Scout Rifle, the settings for both teams are the same.
The rifle does a base damage of 60
At 1000 units (25 meters) the damage is reduced to 51.
At 2000 units (50 meters) the damage is down to 42.
At 3000 units (75 meters) the damage is down to 33.
At 4000 units (100 meters) the damage is down to 24.
Finaly at 5000 units (125 meters) the damage is down to its minimum of 15.

How far is 5000 units?


The Blue Dot represents your firing postion.
The green dot is about 1000 units.
Green-Yellow Dot is about 2000 units.
Yellow Dot is about 3000 units.
Orange dot about 4000 units.
Red dot is about 5000 units

 

Its too strong ,but who really cares about the scout rifle? it will be removed anyway

 

I was just starting off with that one as it is the one people complain about the most.
Here is the Fall off for all BE weapons.

And now the NF Chart (added 4:59pm pst)

 

Its too weak, what are you talking about?
It should be able to do one hit headshots to take down high priority targets

 

Means you got to get up close and personal

I believe the idea behind the fall off damage effect is to reduce people trying to play Empires like a sniper war and encourage the close combat fighting over refs, choke points, bases, etc.

 

Yikes... Any idea what the fall off damage was in the previous version?

 

It is a good idea, but I'm starting to think it may be to drastic.
Hell at 2000 units the BE pistol is lost half the damage it can inflict.
Yes, they should encourage close range firefights, however the definition of close range needs to be examined. I would consider anything within 3000 units close range.

I think the damage fall off should be two tiered. There should be very little, or no damage fall off within 2000 units, then after that it can start to drop like the current levels. Hell, if they dropped to 0 damage after 10000 units I wouldn't mind, as long as I can still do a reasonable amount of damage within 3000 units

There was no fall off

 

There was falloff, but it only dropped to about 75%.

 

Ah, it wasn't in the scripts, so I assumed it didn't exist :D

 

I don't like the way it is. The carbine is already weak the way it is. Its suppose to be for medium distances, yet whats the point if one burst cant kill anyone? Now, if its a infantry battle, no one takes cover anymore because the guns suck.

I don't think nerfing the scout rifle is the best thing to do. Its suppose to be strong, but sort of like a 1 time thing. I suggest making cocking a lot slower, maybe even eliminating the magazine and making it so you have to put a bullet in the chamber each time you shoot. Also have a clearly visible bullet trail so you know where the sniper is.

 

There are some parameters for each weapon:
falloff_base - default 0.85
falloff_distance - default 500 inches
damage
minimal_damage - default 0

Actual damage is computed using this formula:
final_damage = max (damage * falloff_base^ (distance / falloff_distance), minimal_damage)
2.12 had almost the same formula but without customizable minimal_damage (always 0) and falloff_base (always 0.85). falloff_distance was used in some weapons. In 2.2 it's used more often and with more drastic values (lower falloff_base and falloff_distance).

Damage does not drop linearly with the distance.

 

You sure that picture is accurate?

Looks too small, unless canyon is a hell of a lot bigger than it looks.

 

chris has a point, that looks more like 1000-2000U

 

The scripted said damage fall off was linear, so I belied that, I will write up a new chart

Chris/Spooky:
Do get the distance I did this calculation:
Width = (Bottom Right X) - (Top Left X)
MapWidth = (Bottom Right Map X) - (Top Left Map X)
X = MapWidth / Sector Width
Sector Width in Units = Width / X

Edit: New graph now replacing original using proper fall off formula.
Edit 2: Also added graph for NF

 

So wait the idea of the game was to take a good FPS, and give you BB guns?

That and make these BB guns even LESS effective over long range?

Yes, let's take a large wide open map like Mvalley, and give you a shotgun. Yes that is HIGHLY effective eh?

Let's run hundreds of yards across wide open desert so you can get mowed down buy a guy who shoots like he's drunk off his ass or can't pull the trigger correctly.

Then let's make the "overpowered" sniper rifle shoot faster? lol logic.

An ingame unit is supposed to be the equivalent of one inch supposedly.

Don't know how well that works or who wrote it in the source wiki when I last read it, but yeah.

The falloff calculation needs to be reversed. The damage needs to stay high for a while and then start to fall off drastically as range increases.

A straight line that gradually arcs downward to the right.

Damage doesn't drop off instantly and then gradually level out.


(Sorry about that arklansman I'm still used to forums that autocombine duplicate or triplicate messages)

 

The only way this could work is by defining the three points (0,Inital Damage), (Fall Off 85% Distance, 85% Damage), (Max Distance, Min Damage)
So for the Scout Rifle that would be (0,60), (1000,51), (9000,15)
But my algebra isn't good enough to calculate that out anymore, let alone write the algorithm for the computer to figure it out.

 

just inverse the current function.

 

wait, but couldn't you jsut do that using exponents?
I would love to have to compensate for gravity and wind. we can have guidelines on our scope and a built in ranger and windomachine too :D

I'd love you for life you u made that.

 

IMO

Fall off is way too sharp SMG fall off should start at 2000 units for the 85% mark. Rifles at 5000 units. Screw the sniper, it's being removed. May I also suggest not putting a fall off minimum on the shotty pistol?

I think that if you can hit anything with it at a range, you deserve to get the hits.

 

I've got a suggestion.

Replace falloff with with ballistic trajectories. Ballistics allow firefights at the long ranges seen in this mod to have a bigger skill requirement than the typical "click on head" while keeping the damage high so you can't just stand in the open like how it is right now without taking much damage though you're getting hit like mad.
AFAIK ballistics are hard to pull off well in a source game though. Particle physics based projectiles (the most obvious choice) would obviously lag like hell when lots of people are firing. Instead, a "multi hitscan" like thing could be used. When you fire, a very short scanline spawns for a short time, then gets replaced by one just slightly ahead and at a different angle to simulate drop, etc. Hitscans barely have any performance impact so this should work very smoothly, but I imagine it would be kinda hard to code.