Home invasion gone bad...for the bad guys

I don't think I can agree with you Pickled. I don't feel the gun is a good weapon for the populace simply because of it's ease of use, and most of all, because of it's lethality. I don't mind someone having 3 shots or so, let's say. But a gun with a clip or two pretty much guarantees ten bodies (if used intentionally against people). But really, I don't see guns making things safer for people...our police don't have gun battles with crooks here, they don't get shot on the beat, much...just seems like escalation to me.

Regarding pools and lighting, well one is a natural "disaster" and the other you could say saves more lives than it kills. At the very least, swimming is something you can rarely avoid in a lifetime. The difference with guns is that you can go through your whole life without ever having to handle or deal with someone with a gun...and we can directly affect it's use through laws and choices.

 

If we really thought pool-related fatalities were a threat, we could just ban pools and swimming. It would be that simple. Also, if we really thought lightning was something to be concerned about, we could take several trivial measures to drastically reduce human strikes, such as forbidding children be outside during thunderstorms or placing lightning rods in areas with a high probability of children congregating.

These are just examples to demonstrate how out of whack our risk analysis is. Both types of cases have been rigorously and scientifically demonstrated to be more lethal than guns with clear ways for us to prevent death in all cases, yet our reaction to guns is much more heightened and violent.

The biggest thing that pisses me off about all of this, though, is how people who can't stomach guns seem to think that they have the right to tell the rest of us that we can't have them, even when we live in societies where households own 6 or more guns and have lower homicide rates than places that ban them outright. It seems as though individual freedom ends any time anyone thinks something is too scary.

 

In america guns are common, ergo the police need guns to put them on a (somewhat more) level footing with the criminals, and many people would like a gun for the same reason. You expect people to alarm, lock, and maintain the walls of their house to prevent crime, expecting them to protect it with a gun is not a huge leap in terms of functionality, although it is one many people are not comfortable with.

Over here guns are not common, I've never even seen one as far as I can recall, but in time I would expect they would become more common and eventually it will probably be prudent to make them available to the public, and certainly the police could do with them anyway because any advantage you can give the police over criminals will help to reduce crime.

 

Most people with guns - the police more than most sadly, seem inept when it comes to aiming. I don't know how many instances I read about where the police fired 150+ rounds into a target and...hit the target less than 10 times (that guy in NYC who went for his wallet is a great example...I think they threw 200+ rounds at him - and do the math. 92FS has 16 rounds if I remember right, and there were 4 officers...they reloaded a few times.) The general populace is worse. While I'll sit here and defend my right to own a gun - I will advocate a requirement to own a gun be that you qualify with it. Show knowledge of the laws, show knowledge of how to use it, clean it...what not to do...show common sense. And standardize that across ALL states (the congress almost passed that...)

Also, 2 clips on my Glock 21 grants me 26 rounds...I bet I can make that more than 10 bodies easily, or none...depending on my skill, and how shaken up I am.

Like I said before: It comes down to defense in general; fine if you're OK dying...but the point is that we human beings have a drive for survival. If we are faced with death, I bet we'd fight to live. That's all my carrying a gun is: an act of preservation...and I'd be welling to act to defend others, Tazers can work in some instances, but can also kill---and can only reach out 3 feet, or 0 feet depending on the type...and if the person has on heavy clothing on. My Glock can reach out 50feet accurately (or better) and for the most part won't care about what they're wearing, short of kevlar. Most importantly, it's a deterrant. I garuntee you if I pull out my gun, I'm willing to use it...but pulling it out is probably enough to make sane people back down, and insane people will keep coming at me...leaving me the option to pull the trigger...a knife or tazer would likely put me in close quarters which is where I DON'T want to be. A gun puts me at a good distance where I can reach out and defend myself.

 

If the police have guns they can more easily stop criminals because having a gun pointed at you is more persuasive than being chased by a copper. If guns become common enough that most criminals are armed with them, it's quite probably the only way you'll catch a criminal because I doubt many coppers would chase someone with a gun if they don't have one.

If you catch a criminal you can better ensure they don't do it again, if you don't catch them there's bugger all you can do to ensure they don't do it again.

 

Also keep in mind that the US has a much larger (thousands of miles larger) and in most situations much more accessible border than, say, the UK.

It is a very difficult border to defend against, say, drug dealers coming from south america or mexico. Or, in the past, illegal liquor coming from canada.

Gun control at this point would be a monumental task. We'd have to put the entire united states under martial law and remove all weapons by force in many cases.

Also keep in mind that gun laws don't harm people who obtain guns illegally. Making it harder for the average citizen to get a gun legally only makes it harder for people who, 95% of the time, won't use the gun for illegal activities. It doesn't do shit for people who own them illegally.

Also, another side note. You can't get a license to carry any sort of hand gun if you've commited any sort of felony in most states in the US.

The only thing lax about our gun laws would be the fact that we are allowed to have guns. Other than that, legally owning a gun is much harder than it would seem from your point of view.

The real bitch about concealed weapons is that you most times don't know the weapon is concealed until it's being shot at you. And when someone pulls a gun on you, the first thing you ask is not going to be "do you have a license for that?

 

Drunk drivers kill tons more people than guns.
However,there is no where near the same level of controversy. Up until fairly recently, drunk drivers legally obtained licenses in different states when their licenses were prohibited.

 

See we don't have that problem because we don't have states.

 

I kinda hashed out my opinion on spec with Pickled yesterday. Convincing each other was never the goal, just he knows my side and I get his.

Although, with cars...all I gotta say is pileups :p

 

7 pages of crap because someone defended herself in the middle of rural fuckshit nowhere? You guys argue about anything.

 

Be a bit shit if we never debated anything.