Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Krazer, Feb 9, 2011.
C'mon, you know you want to.
They deserve them so much more than Riflemen.
you know what this would actually be interesting, but the only problem would be what would happen to all the four nades the scout has? maybe give the smoke nade to the rifleman and make it semi useful?
don't remove the fucking conc nade, it's really useful, and it's my second most used nade, other than the seismic nade ofc.
Grens should really have stickies to be honest.
grens should get all nades and not only have to select one, plus an ammobox and the BEAR instead of their pistol ...
ffs stop with the ad absurdum arguments if you don't like a idea just say so.
but i actually would agree with empty in this case. why the fuck would you give the rifleman (the anti infantry class) the strongest infantry based, and indeed perhaps the strongest antitank weapon (other than maybe nukes; someone check damage values) in the whole game??? just give the gren a choice between like the mines and the sticky nades, or even the rpg and the sticky nades, and leave that at that. obviously the gren shouldn't have the mortar, rpg , sticky grenades, AND mines, but if he could swap out one of these for the sticky nade, that could be pretty useful.
if i could take this suggestion serious, i might argue serious ...
give the sticky to the gren
maybe instead the mortar
or *BAM BAM BAM terrible new idea*
replace the mortar by some sort of one shot grenade launcher
(since it does not really behave like a mortar anyway)
something like this:
BUT: don't just let it fire normal grenades
instead let it rather be some kinde of multi-purpose launcher, where you could put in all different types of stuff
(hell even mines, although they would only fly like 2-3 meters)
I'd give stickies to everyone but the engineer honestly.
I'd also combine stuns and regular stickies into one, except instead of overheating you, it just turns the handbrake on so you stop and can't move.
Should let infantry mob tanks if they can get close enough and get enough of them together.
scouts should get mines and grens should just get a semi auto mowtar(6 round clip) and pistol.
a semiauto mortar? no waaaaaay
Along with unlimted ammo with kinda long clip cylce time.
no you can have that with tanks but you can't have the "omg i can hide and shit" of infantry and the "omg tank cannon weaponry" of tanks. it's a tradeoff.
I don't know if it is just me, but the label looks like "RAPE" to me .
And please, don't add infantry grenade-launchers, else we will have a typical Battlefield BC2 scenario where one calls for an ammo box, then keeps spamming nades infinitely, being even lamer than a scout-rifle whore.
I am yet to see a good suggestion in this thread.
Rifle gets the sticky as his anti tank weapon. Engi has the ML + walls, scout stuns, gren has RPG and retard launcher.
Its powerful, because if you get that close, you deserve that much damage.
Its fine as it is atm....we dont need every class to have a weapon against everything, we need mixed squads and teamplay.
OT: Thats what I call a gren launcher (at 01:06 minutes).... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3mHNHIYbp4&feature=related
I really need to speak to the NF weapon development I need this for my grenadier....
But nonsensical, you go rifleman to kill infantry and he's extremely effective, you go gren to kill tanks and he's mediocre at best, in fact in many situations rifleman is better against tanks than grenadier for no sensible reason.
Given the choice between mines and stickies, I'd still find it difficult (especially if say, your mines despawned if you take stickies) to choose the weapon, but it would give the gren more capabilities as an antitank class.
The scout is still slightly underpowered, but his supporting anti-structure role and extremely effective (when used correctly) anti-infantry support makes him a useful, if not necessary soldier.
The engineer is still the backbone of any team, but he's no longer super powered, especially with ammo box for tanks removal. His influence has grown much smaller.
But the best class in empires currently is the rifleman, for his ability to go into almost any situation and at the very least do critical damage to an opponent, his only real weakness is incapability to destroy structures effectively, but that's hardly a weakness because any smart team will be running a large enough contingent of engineers to deal with structures.
To be honest the riflemans antiinfantry power is not so much the issue with his class as his ridiculous ability to dole out damage, it's quite fair for the rifleman to simply win an infantry fight because he's a rifleman, but not so much for him to be immediately able to destroy or heavily damage a vehicle immediately afterwards.
In fact, if you think about the effects giving stickies to grenadiers will have, you'll see that it would actually strengthen the usage of teamwork and squads.
Riflemen keep your engineers and grenadiers safe, as well as keeping enemy infantry suppressed.
Your grenadiers work to defend the squad against vehicles and turrets.
Engineers give supporting fire but most importantly revives and ammunition to keep the squad healthy and effective.
And scouts simply give the squad support, they don't necessarily have to be in a squad either, as a roaming (you could argue lonewolf) scout, I can still help squads out extremely effectively, KOing refs and sabbing raxes if I see a squad engage a base is incredibly useful, and the sniper rifle, though not super powerful, can help pick off engineers highly effectively.
Finally, the mortar.
While you can argue that it is a fairly powerful anti-infantry weapon, it is at it's heart, a fire and forget gun. You can only realistically use a mortar once in a firefight, and only against 1, max 2 players, which if they were in a squad would usually be able to be revived.
The simple fact is, the grenadier, while being a powerful antitank class, needs a way to respond to infantry. The mortar lets him help a squad in a strictly infantry fight, but isn't viable as a weapon to take out large numbers of enemy soldiers. It's less of a weapon to kill infantry, and more of a weapon to let the grenadier fend for himself. While segregating the classes abilities enhances teamwork, making a class completely ineffectual against infantry is unfair to those who play that class, because unlike vehicles, infantry are always a threat, and at the end of the day this is a game, we are trying to invoke fun. The soldiers aren't units, they are players, and feeling helpless against another player is never really enjoyable.
As long as you dont try to be super cool and run over infantry as a tank driver, stickies are no threat to you, you can do this of course if you wanna have fun but then its your fault if you get stickied.
Gren is a long range anti tank class, with a verry powerfull tool (mines) to close entrances/bridges etc
Also it is verry powerful against infantry with the mortar...mortar is the better version of an riflemens explosive grenade. It imediatly explodes on impact, it has a verry long range and you can carry alot of grenades.
And of course the mortar does a lot of damage to buildings.
And at last the pistol is a hell of an anti infantry weapon.
The only weakness of the grenadier is that he only can e builed stuff, sure the riflemen is better against infantry but for an anti tank class the gren is a verry good allrounder.
Why do most of the veteran players choose gren in an infantry only map?
Because on district the mortar is much more effective than on a real map, since you can just jump out of cover, take a potshot and jump back in.
In a proper match on an open map, the mortar is much less powerful.
what no mortar is much more useful on real maps because on district crouching makes you too slow, and you can lob grenades everywhere, on big maps mortar is more useful than grenades because you can't run from god damn mortars on real maps, unlike shitstrict where soft collishuns and boxes and walls and a billion other unmentioned obstructions obstruct your safe passage away from the god damn grenade.
Well put Empty, very insightful.
I imagine it would be a helluva lot of fun to have stickies as a gren, as so much of the gren skill comes from cycling through weapons and using them according to the situation. Imagine having an apc rush come at you and you two shot one with mortar/rpg and whip out a sticky and sprint at the other, and get both. That would be pretty rad, and mean that your rifles are ready to pick off the guys who bail out/other enemy inf.
IMO "good" players go gren because theyre sick of playing games with rifles, in many cases. I mean, I played cs for years, when I discovered empires the last thing I wanted to do was shoot more stuff with a rifle. Then those players get good because the gren class is rewarding, with a high skill cap, and different functionality than any class in any source game I can think of.
An alt weapon for the mortar or RPG would be awesome, and every other class has alts
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