Fix Empires

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Sitka, Jul 22, 2013.

  1. Sitka

    Sitka Member

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    Standing issues:

    • HE is OP in relation to UML or any other ML
    • UGML was removed (faggots)
    • VEHICLE MGs ARE COMPLETE AND UTTER PURE SHIT NOW
    • Fission
    • Almost ALL of the last patch
    • BESMG1 might be OP
    • Nobody uses BEAR. Ever.
    • NFHR is underpowered
    • You have to click again and again to get to spawn. All of these damned windows popping up everywhere. What if i wanted to select squad while walking out of the rax?
    • You will run out of ammo Every. Single. Time you engage a vehicle. Double the ammo or give back infinite ammo because this is ridiculous.
    • All of the armors that were changed significantly are now completely counterintuitive.

    Sub-list on armor:
    • Please tell me how something hitting absorbant armor will transfer enough heat to the engine to overheat it cool it.
    • Regen is counter to bio. Seriously what the fuck.
    • Grens are strong against reactive now, making it even more shit.
    • Nobody uses reflective.
    • All armors that people actually use are too damn strong. Weapons just don't do any damage to them and you end up just sitting there shooting at eachother for 10 minutes until somebody retreats and comes back 10 seconds later with fully repaired armor anyway.
    • The armor cfg's have probably been re-written more times than the bible.
    • I'm using a pointed list and proceed to make some points far too long.
    Notes:
    Seriously, every single armor now has the opposite purpose and it does it horribly at that.


    Other problems recently introduced
    • You mean to tell men who have gone through excessive military training cannot sprint for more than 5 seconds?
    • The HUD is inferior to the previous one.

    Other problems which have been around since the dawn of time:
    • When placing NF mines quickly the sound place twice.
    • When holding down mortar fire or firing just as the shell comes in, no sound triggers.
    • Homing weapons have their lock broken by trees and other tiny stuff.
    • New players will use the scout rifle EVERY SINGLE TIME
    • You cannot melee when reloading, even if it would cancel reload. (technically not a problem but really...)


    And now to the
    Stupid suggestions section

    ML addition (See "dumbfire rockets" for actual serious suggestion)
    NF has no heavy weapons to shoot over walls and such, like the HE cannon. So perhaps make a new weapon which will travel in a trajectory as such:


    -------------------^
    ----------------/-----\
    ---------------/---|---\
    --------------/----|----\*
    -------------/-----|-----\
    [NFHEAVY]/------^---[TARGET]
    ======== [BE walls or whatever]

    *make the missile split a few or several times here or earlier, like a cluster bomb, if you want to break the game even further, which seems to be the goal here.

    Obviously it probably doesn't have to be that steep, perhaps make it like the HE or even ranged CN.
    Seriously though, a real real, serious suggestion:
    Dumb-fire rockets with a curved trajectory. Obviously not too many, you don't want every NF heavy to be an armored Katyusha artillery truck, but enough to make them useful.

    Utility vehicle(s) (alternatively, modules for the APC which has been talked about over in another thread full of gentlemen)
    Additional vehicles are one of the things that you can probably add and not completely ruin the game too much.
    Disregard that, few things can break the game as much as the last patch.

    A new vehicle. Beware of completely stupid suggestions and feel free to flame me into Oblivion for these:

    Engineering/Support vehicle:
    Version 1:
    -Engineering vehicle that assists in building stuff that is hard to build. Obviously making the existing buildings harder to build is out of the question because it would completely break the Engineer. So instead i suggest something such as:
    Upgradable Vehicle Factory: In order to build more advanced vehicles, the vehicle factory needs to undergo some modifications. Obviously upgraded faster by this vehicle.
    I just realised that passively trolling this hard is crossing the line into a ragefest and will possibly make people question my intelligence. inb4 "but we already did/knew you were fucking stupid"

    Version 2 (PERHAPS THIS ONE COULD HELP INFANTRY COMBAT SO LISTEN UP TANK COMBAT HATERS): Indirect combat support vehicle:
    -Has a large capacity of front/side plates. Has ammo and health crates built-in to the back or somewhere near there. It might feature a wide front end in a shield style to provide portable cover for infantry (imagine an oversized version of the BE RPG/panzershreck face/upper torso cover plate, or perhaps a slightly bowl-shaped shield (like a jesus-lizard or something), obviously stylized for each faction).
    -Perhaps add an ability for infantry to fire from slits inside the vehicle (few seats for balance)
    More poorly drawn illustrations:
    ----------------------_
    -----------------------| <---[shielding]
    -________________|
    |-[slit]-[crates]-------| <---[front end]
    |-[slit]-[crates]-------|
    |________________,|
    -----------------------|
    ----------------------| <---[shielding]
    --------------------¨¨

    ________________________________________________

    [shielding]->_
    ----------------|-----------[NFturret]
    -----------------|________________
    -----------------|[cra------------------| <---[front end]
    -----------------|tes]------------------|
    -----------------|________________|
    ----------------|-----------[NFturret]
    ---------------|
    [shielding]->¨¨


    Notes:
    [NFturret] = Turrets like those that used to be on the side of the NF heavy tank. Fires small shells.
    Perhaps have side-skirts that are suspended from beams above the vehicle to prevent splash-damage, particularly in version 1.
    Obviously you don't park this up in the face of a group of heavies but rather in the middle of big fields dominated by tanks or near the edge of that field to provide infantry cover.


    EDIT: I hope you all realize that the shit under "stupid suggestions" is part parody (for example the NF rocket UGL) and part half-seriousness.
    So when i make this absolutely crap suggestion that we should have a big, shielded, ugly out-of-place junk tank, i actually mean: Let's find a way to encourage infantry combat on tank-dominated maps without having to nerf vehicle MGs to hell.

    There were still serious suggestions in there, obviously, such as the dumbfire rockets which is essentially the rocket UGL joke except it doesn't go up in a steep line, turn a corner and return down in the same style.


    Actual, serious suggestion section
    • Unbreak vehicle combat
    • Implement an arma style direct-talk feature that lets you micspam stupid shit while you camp the enemy rax
    • Give com a direct voice chat that originates from where the com cam is. Now make it do damage to buildings based on how loud the commander screams. Will bring the true power of hsm's voice to the enemy, and it will be down if he truly wants it.
    • Blast Walls: Much harder to build but has a ton of health. It blocks the AOE from artillery and nukes, and is generally a stronger version of the wall. Maybe make it weak to direct fire to balance it out.
    • Double the mine cap and make them do double damage to urethrafranklin.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2013
  2. Candles

    Candles CAPTAIN CANDLES, DUN DUN DUN, DUN DUN DUN DUN.

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    Good news, that's actually been added if the next patch ever comes out :3
    That's next on the list.
     
  3. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    cakecake.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
  4. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    There's a lot of stupid shit in there and things that make it far harder to comment on that it should be, so I'm just going to pick out a few little bits and pieces:

    Regardless of the fact that I can't get my SVN install working, I would not let the next patch come out without fission being fixed. It's just that I'd have liked to release a server-side patch about 2 months ago with a fix, but I can't test it at all, and I've spent literally 12 hours over the past week trying to get my SVN install working.

    Infantry weapons are, for the most part, fine. NFHR is and always as been sucky but I can't fix the ironsights, so I'm just balancing for cross-hairs.

    The spawn bug (having to click multiple times) has been in the game for several years now. We tried our best to get rid of it but it really doesn't seem to want to go away.

    Things you are just wrong about:

    BE SMG1 is identical to NF SMG1. Ergo, one cannot be overpowered.
    Vehicle ammo is what it is. Ammo. Just because you can't manage your shit or get an ammobox dropped does not mean there's a problem. It means you suck.
    When absorbant takes hits, it cools the tank. It does not overheat it.
    Regen counters bio because bio already wrecks the regen properties, so the traditional way of having bio counter regen with additional damage is absurd, as it renders the armour absolutely useless. Reactive however has more HP than any other armour, and can thus take the extra pain.
    Grens are strong against reactive? There's literally no armour that Grens are less strong against. It has more HP than any other armour, it takes more RPGs per plate than any other armour. I have no idea where you get this from.
    Reflective isn't used because fission is broken which makes the entire physics tree a silly option to go. Reflective was never going to be a top tier armour, but it's a good one if you're in that tree. If you're not in that tree, you have no reason to pick it up over the other more flexible armours on offer. That's not a problem, but physics needs to be viable, which it will when fission is fixed.
    "Problems recently introduced" - Sprinting has not changed in the 5+ years I have played this game, and I imagine that it barely changed in the years before that as well. You're imagining things again.
    This HUD is better than the previous one, the old one looked like it was out of the 90s.

    All in all, a lot of wasted text when you could have made 5-6 genuinely solid points in your post without diluting it with a decent amount of shit.

    3/10 would not read again.

    Although I will say, dumbfire missiles are something I've wanted for a while, but will require a decent amount of code effort. It's not on the priority list.
     
  5. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    Hearing that made sitting through the big wall of text oh so worth it.

    You kind Sir deserve a manly handshake.



    I hope you mean its on the list as in a take that?


    As for sitkas post, the one thing I really like is makig com walls diffrent. 25 res for what unbuilt walls are now, with AoE working on them, is pretty ridiculous.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2013
  6. Sitka

    Sitka Member

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    I'm not just talking about the spawn bug, though (which I've almost never experienced). I'm talking about the addition of forced squad menu popup etc. For example, you used to just be able to spawn, and then select your squad afterwards.

    pls Trickster, go to fuel, midbridge or early-game canyon where you don't have base whores to drop you ammo all the time and the com just don't have the res or map control to plonk down armories everywhere.
    Vehicle combat is terrible with 30 bloody shells only. Not to mention ML ammo.
    MG ammo is okay but like i said vehicle MGs are broken beyond belief and induce serious rage.
    Also, not all games are scrims.

    I don't know what i was thinking. I knew as is was writing it was cooling but i managed to fuck it up anyway.
    Well, point is: please explain how explosion + armor = cooling the engine. Even if it was to make sense, you'd have to ram shells up the rear of the tank, where the engine actually is.

    Which brings me to another suggestion: Heat/engine damage/marginal hull damage through armor when hit in the back.

    I never saw it used pre-patch either, though.
    Perhaps instead of just fixing, give it a tiny buff, either in research time or handling.

    I could swear that sprinting was recently nerfed. At least by a small amount. Now it seems every time you move you're always just about to run out of stamina, whereas before you could use it now and then without microing said stamina bar constantly.

    How did it look that way? It was just a simple, colored and easy-on-the-eyes HUD. I mean, look at the X buttons and icons. All metally and stuff. I'd say it looks more like a 90's space theme than the prev one. They're practically the same shape, though.



    Also, all the shit that i threw in there was partly in hopes of sparking some actual good ideas. A lot of suggestion threads have gone from bad to good through thorough discussion and collective idea pooling.
     
  7. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    Squad menu was forced for a reason.

    Reflective was one of the best armors in 2.12, but that was ages ago.

    Had you played more with that blue hud, you'd learn to hate it. The new one is glorious.
     
  8. Sitka

    Sitka Member

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    I've played for ages with that hud and i didn't find it that bad.

    Also, just because we want new players it doesn't mean we have to implement a hundred bottlefeeding scripts and cater to complete idiots.
    Personally i think that if they can't even look through the options, I don't want them in Empires anyway. Those are the kind of people who will whine, bitch and still play scout with hide+rifle after a 6 months of playing.

    We also have (or had) a tutorial level + tooltips for a reason.
     
  9. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    Yes it means just that.
    If youy played as much as you claim, you'd notice that there always were roving bands of newbs without squads.
     
  10. Sitka

    Sitka Member

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    There always are.
    But with it being forced straight away, you have newbs in charge of squads left and right, and they don't know how to give squad command.
    So you have to tell them.

    The whole force popup thing was to prevent people from having to tell them how to join squads in the first place.
     
  11. urethra franklin

    urethra franklin Member

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    And on top of that forcing pop ups is just flat out annoying even if it happens to raise the quality of play (It really doesn't, forcing people into squads just means you have roving bands of idiots that are in a squad as opposed to roving bands of idiots not in a squad.)
     
  12. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    From my experience, vets would still be able to join a squad first, for most of the time.
    It's pretty much our instinct.

    Even if you don't get to join squad first, you can still ask your comm to switch the squad lead.
     
  13. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    right, like it would be ideas empires needs - theres more ideas on this forums then an army of coders could implement in their lifetime.
     
  14. Sitka

    Sitka Member

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    Good ideas such as don't fuck up the vehicle MGs and ruin tank combat completely because turning every armor upside down sounded good in somebody's mind.

    And perhaps stuff that will make people actually play the game.
     
  15. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    New games everywhere, you have to accept the inevitable death of Empires.
    The things keeping people from playing this game are the other games.
     
  16. Sitka

    Sitka Member

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    here
     
  17. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    its made up bullshit, in 2008 noone would have said empires dies ...
     
  18. Sitka

    Sitka Member

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    Whatever you say, flasche.
     
  19. Spike

    Spike Long Live The King!

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    empires will never be fixed.
     
  20. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    Empires dying since 2.0.

    What the fuck did I just read.
     

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