fill in the poll and debate imbalances early, mid and late gameplay is map dependant, but mostly "early" gameplay is the first 15 minutes, late game-play is the time one team has gained the upper hand or at least an hour of gameplay has passed, mid gameplay is everything in between
Don't forget much of it depends on the commanders strategy. APC rush? BE all the way. LT rush? NF. It isn't so simple to put it down to early/mid/late.
NF has a slight advantage because of the chemistry tree and absorbant armor. most commanders who go chemistry will get absorbant because it is a chearp armor for early game and it makes rails pretty crappy. NF has the advantage until BE uses a combination of weapons.. like HE cannons and rail guns and/or bio MG. After BE has a combination, BE will slowly have advantage. Since a few patches ago, missiles seem.. not as strong or something. Cannons seem to be easier at hitting enemy tanks and dont have to reload as much =\. Although if NF went electric and get reactive armor.. then NF has the advantage at the begining of the game since chemistry is commonly researched by BE.. which means HE cannon.
OH NO, not one of those threads again. Since death threats against the devs and whining about the faction balance are on an all-time-low, i guess the balance is just fine.
I hate to do a slight derail but seeing as Alucard brought it up I have to. Chemistry needs a nerf. Absorbent is great early game and then backed up by huge firepower that goes into the late game, and even has one of the best, if not the best engine. It is very, very, very viable to go chemistry/mechanical and not touch another tree for an hour.
Does the BE SMG2 have the same spread pattern/cone as NF SMG2? Cause I noticed you can run around and spray people with BE SMG2.. but it is a bit harder to hit people when doing the same thing with NF SMG2.
Had to choose between map balance and NF's inherent advantage. Nearly All maps are NF sided so I chose that.
It always comes down to missiles vs cannons. Missiles fly straight and do tons of DPS. Use less heat. Cannons require skill shots, especially while moving. People argue they travel faster but I haven't noticed a large enough difference to say that compensates. More heat. NF use missiles - Missiles are easier to use and destroy buildings faster. Less Heat BE uses cannons - Require skill shots (Do less DPS vs buildings? Not sure of actual numbers but kinda feels like it.) More heat. But overall the balance issues aren't very impacting on the game as much as some maps, and good teamwork/commanders. The balance overall is actually very good. TBH though I would rather both teams used the same slotting on their tanks, and there were more specialized tanks for 3 slot missiles or 2 2slot missiles/cannons etc, and missiles are good against building, cannons against other vehicles/infantry. (Obviously wont happen) -That last part is just some random garbage off the top of my head that's not too relevant.
Mainly map dependant, early game both factions are fairly equal, lategame it tilts towards BE's much better tank designs.
i prefered the "if you cant beat them with LTs, they gonna rape you with railheavies" balance over the current one - currently everything is so equal, but in the end (~ lategame) it isnt ... while NF heavies are awesome to flatten bases, they are completely inferior to BE heavies in tank vs tank combat. the difference in between AFVs and LTs is not that big, also those tanks dont cost a fortune. so it might be clearly NF sided, but the hit you take for losing a single tank is neglectable, both tanks can also be fought against quite well with RPGs and mortars (though on high latency servers its kinda tricky to hit LTs) evening out the advantage NF has early game. midgame, or better during medium tank phase, the balance is pretty much equal. BE tanks are a bit harder to hit, but NF tanks keep up with maneuverability, you get this things over almost any obstacle. im not sure what to vote. in the end i think BE has the bigger advantage tank wise througout the game, especially if you let the game go on to lategame, but it gets evened out by the vet-love for NF ...
Hmmm yeah. I guess it depends heavily on maps. I'd say NF has advantage in open maps.. where their lights can run around and making "light" of AFV. the heavies have more maneuver room to avoid return fire. the heavies can missile spam missiles at buildings from far away. BE has advantage in close quarter maps.. make NF light tanks stay still, although lights can go up and ram an AFV and the AFV cannot do much.. but it is a suicide mission usually. make NF Heavies stuck in a traffic jam and become big targets to cannons, especially splash weapons. NF heavies cannot missile spam buildings with BE heavies preventing you from advancing and getting a clear shot. Also, in a traffic jam in close quarter maps.. a BE Heavy not in the front lines can fire cannons over people in front. NF heavies in the back, the missiles will only fly straight and will hit the friendly tank in front of it small arms are skill wise i guess.
I'm only going to address tech/tanks in my post because infantry alone rarely win conquest matches (at least not in the pub games that I play) so they don't make that much difference, also it changes a fair bit and I'm not an amazing shot. I like things the way they are for tanks - they are not too different that tanking on either faction requires specialised knowledge but also it does still require you to be flexible and sometimes tank differently (not that I'm a good tank driver). There are advantages and disadvantages to each faction & these can be made more or less evident depending on how the research develops through the course of a round. Also the map design can really bring out these traits in certain circumstances. When circumstances and the environment all conspire in one side's favour then for sure situations arise where one faction has a clear advantage but it isn't that often and this type of not-completely-symmetrical-balance lends the game some depth whilst still being reasonably accessible. These are nuances that are fun to learn & learn how to counter, but anyone can still jump in an NF light and drive around shooting things just as easily as they can jump into a BE heavy and do likewise. IMHO more chassis configurations only serves to complicates things & giving the factions exactly the same chassis configuration will make everything too linear and boring, may as well call it Reds vs Blues. I don't think there isn't anything that couldn't be addressed with more than a few little nerfs/buffs.
UML is 1800, ER is 3300, Rails are 3600. It is easily to see if you are looking for it. Some numbers to keep in mind for the "well balanced" weapons. To kill a Vf from 100% hp with no repairs: HE 24 shots @ 75 dmg * 13 heat @ 60 seconds = 30 dps @ 312 total heat ER 32 shots @ 60 dmg * 10 heat @ 48 seconds = 40 dps @ 320 total heat Rails 18*2 (36) shots @ 50 dmg * 6 heat @ 28.8 seconds = 62.5 dps @ 216 total heat UML 12*2 (24) shots @ 75 dmg * 6 heat @ 15.8 seconds = 57.0 dps @ 144 total heat This is just the damage and heat stats. UML has 35% less heat, no arc, no kick and takes half the time to kill a building, and can do so from across the map? Both HE and ER are going to have major heat problems even with engineer cooling and ACE. Open map: duststorm NF advantage with LT early game NF advantage with UML snipe late game On closed map: Streets of fire/slaughtered Slight NF advantage with LT early game (small hitbox) NF advantage late game with UML spam While this actuality makes sense, and would be the ideal start for fixing balance issues, Empires is asymmetrically balanced. As in any pure RTS game, you are trading a mass of 1 unit for a smaller mass of 2+ units. NF gets chem (abs/ACE/UML) -> heavy tanks BE: same research NF wins with 2x uml heavies BE: gets 2x HE cn BE has high heat/low dps weapons -> NF wins with 2x uml ( low heat/high dps) BE: abs/ACE/rails NF hard counters rails with abs, kills BE w/ 2x uml heavies BE: electric rush BE has crap armor (too heavy, cost), NF hard counters rails with abs, kills BE w/ 2x uml heavies BE: != ACE -> overheat BE: abs/ACE + ER/DU NF beats BE to heavy tanks by 3+ minutes, kills BE w/ 2x uml heavies BE: research > 2 trees; NF beats BE to heavy tanks by 3 minutes, kills BE w/ 2x uml heavies BE: research = mediums; BE has high heat/low dps weapons -> NF counters with uml meds, wins with 2x uml heavies Is anyone seeing a pattern here or is it just me? Also, not sure what you are getting at with BE getting HE cannon.
so there is a bottle neck on the map. it is a long valley that is flat at the bottom. it only allows only 2 tanks to roll in side by side, the rest must go behind those 2 tanks in front as a column. NF tanks. only the first 2 or even the first 4 may be able to shoot the enemy tanks that are on the opposite side. the other tanks in the back would hit each other's hit boxes. disadvantage of having missiles that fly straight. so fire power of NF is reduced. BE tanks. most of the tank in the column can fire at the enemy because of the arc. you can fire it above the forward tanks, assuming there is no hugging, and hit the enemy like artillery or mortar.
the balance is pretty good, and it would be totally acceptable if people would just THINK before they make a map.
we need to collect more info. get stat tracking back with actually useful things tracked (whats researched, game time, avg # of plaers so on)
You are assuming that NF is trying to tank out the tanks first: NF is not going to need to bother with the tanks, they just take out the VF at the end of the valley. Once that is done, NF kills remaining BE tanks At max draw distance, UMl is still accurate enough to be able to take out a VF in a few salvos. also, you have no mention of research. ER and rails dont have much of an arc. The balance between weapons is quite good, although UML could have its damage bumped down 5 to 10 points. The problem with the balance is the heavy tanks. The proprieties of cannons let the fill a rather specific roll, while the proprieties of missiles let the fill a different specific roll. This would not be a problem if both sides could carry the same weapons.
