Crossplatform Discussion (Moved from UN Peacekeeper)

Lol, theres no real reason to ban me for that kind of thing except for the auto-fire which I've never actually used... Infact I see no reason why they don't just make this an offical product so they can cross platform more easily.

FYI, I play with this online with no problem

 

One day I'll actually reply to this and read the whole thing. In the mean time, here's a question for you: If the keyboard and mouse is SO superior, why are console sales spelling the death of PC gaming?

Binding keys is something the VAST majority of people don't want to do. Too much fucking work. A controller fits in your hand comfortably, and is preconfigured in a way that works for you. It's all in the reach of your thumbs and index fingers. Pretty fucking simple, and that's why it's pretty fucking popular.

Go look up KISS.

Yes, and again, an analog stick has acceleration. I can pretty much twitch aim in Halo 3. Again, you're claiming one is better for lack of even trying the other and giving it a chance.

 

Except it's what gets called an unfair advantage in online gameplay. It's detectable...hell, even the mods for autofire that you can do to the controllers have resulted in bans and/or code fixes to defeat them in game.

And control schemes aren't the cross platform issue - game engines, rendering hardware, memory contraints, differing CPU architectures, storage differences....the LEAST of their concerns is control schemes. Especially when changing a control scheme is as simple as rewiring the WM_KEYDOWN and WM_KEYUP events. I mean...control schemes are REALLY fucking simple to change out.

 

The reason PC gaming is declining is because the hardware on consoles never become obsolete, and it's rare to get viruses (with the exception of red rings) where on a computer, your hardware has to be kept up-to-date, or else your screwed to either having an overheating gfx card, low fps, having to put your settings down, or all three of the above listed.

 

While none of what you say is wrong in reason, it misses the biggest problem, or the bigger picture:

PC gaming is for those of us who tinker.

Console gaming is for those who want to open a box and plug it in.

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PC gaming requires you to see if your hardware can handle it

Consoles allow you to buy a game stamped with your console's logo and it will work.

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PC gaming is meant for those willing to suffer for more potential gains

Console gaming is for up front immediate enjoyment


Sadly, while PC games of yester...decade were worth the extra hassle, those of today are not. Games of the complexity and thoroughness like Deus Ex, System Shock 2 and such are gone. Replaced with drivel like Bioshock (I have high hopes for the new Deus Ex game)

The real point is that PC gaming is not a surefire put the disc in and hit play like console gaming is. Yes, consoles are more immune to hackers; they get outdated, but only in the sense that games will not advance much graphically.

From the developer's standpoint, a console is dead simple. If you target one console - we'll say the 360 since the PS3's toolchain is notoriously bad - you aim for ONE footprint. A tri-core CPU, each core being dual issue, meaing 6 threads, of which you get 90% of all CPU time. You assign the CPU and GPU some alotment of the 512MB of RAM, and you go. When you get done, there's no testing it on a less powerful CPU, there's no testing it on AMD vs Intel CPUs or nVidia vs ATI...there's no "windows vs Linux vs Mac OS", there's no hackers...and updates are stupidly simple to do.

I mean, Steam helps SOME issues, but fundamentally PC (and Mac) gaming is plainly flawed...and for that reason alone PC gaming - and gaming with a KB & Mouse - will go by the wayside. PCs are increasing either going mobile with laptops, smartphones, PMPs, tablets, hell even clockside radios (ala Chumby) - or just getting touch enabled screens.

PC gaming isn't dead yet, but it is in it's walking ghost phase.

 

Commercial gaming is in its walking ghost phase perhaps. I doubt PC gaming will ever die, if it has a screen, it can run Doom.

It could just be like this because of technical limitations, lets say that we get to an age where digital distribution is leading the market of distribution and where engines are cross-platform, like the new game John Carmack is working on and UT? If it is accesible for a developer to do both with very little stress on production, having it on all platforms, including PC, would only allow them to cover their expenses in the game's trail (the first weeks of release where it actually sells).

Most pc's and laptops nowadays come with HDMI capable graphics cards, so games are more accesible for the average user, unless this trend is discontinued, there is no reason to believe that the pc is a dying market.

 

PC gaming won't die until both of the following conditions are met.

The consoles have the modibilatly that PC games do.
An actual key-board and mouse is made for consoles.

 

add "and all the awesome classic games for pc only suddenly become unavailable"

 

You can't play a strategy game on a console. Why?

 

Enough with the fanboyism already, jesus christ. Just because you have your own view doesn't mean you're the majority.

PC gaming today is both an afterthought, and a niche. Lets look at the KB/mouse idea. Your couch. End of looking at that idea.

Consoles are for the masses, and they sell. VERY well.

And if PC gaming is a niche already, then modding is a niche inside of a niche. Steam has helped to bring it to light, but it's still very much a niche market.

Will PC gaming ever die? That's like asking is smallpox gone...no, it'll never completely die. But how long will AMD and nVIdia keep churning expensive hardware? We're in an economic downturn...what makes more sense: a 200 USD console, or a 250 USD videocard.

Dragon Age Origins took an RPG and threw it on the console. Halo Wars did stratagey on the console.

What are you talking about, other than your fanboyism?

 

Test coverage. Yeah. Go run with that.

 

Keep it up, maybe he will leave?

 

Console gaming is 100000x more convenient than PC gaming.

You can take your console and pack it up much easier than a PC, and you can plug it into any TV.

Just as I can fine tune my mouse movements, so can elite console players fuck people up with the joystick. If you are used to it, it's quite easy to handle. I've never gotten used to it after growing up on mario kart, where the vast majority of the time you just floor the stick in whichever direction you need to go. If the game requires you to not have the stick all the way down for the whole time, i suck though.


As he said earlier, knowing a game will play great is a very nice thing. I have a 360 for some games just because I know they'll work. Other games, I love cheating and editing things, so I use a computer.



On a side note, Mount & Blade is a great fun game. So many hours wasted. Wish it was ported to the console.

 

Even if halo wars was on the xbox, strategy games are notorious on consoles. for most of my gaming life, i've been playing starcraft and warcraft 3, and the keyboard is the ultimate tool because of all the hotkeys you'd have to press and you are able to macro units. In a console you can't macro, which putting your units into groups is such a necessity, and the controls are just plain awkward, not that you can't get used to it. Now if it was a turn-based strategy game(e.g. Advanced Wars) or a Strategy RPG(e.g. Final Fantasy tactics, Fire Emblem series) it would be more fun on a console.

What you said there about people getting laptops and other portable machines is a huge factor in the PC gaming decline. no one can deny the fact that parents get laptops, which suck for gaming (And i'm not talking about mouse support, which all laptops have, i'm talking about not being able to change the stock hardware on the laptop) but they are comfortable machines, that don't take up space, and the whole thing is put together in one folding box. It is much funner to just plug in the video/audio cables to a TV(Coaxial or HDMI cables as well depending on what type of TV you have) then plug it into the wall, plug in a controller, A memory card if your playing on an older system, and your good to go, you just got to change the channel the TV is on and start up the console with your favourite game in.

My opinion doesn't change though that FPS is better on PC than on a console, I prefer racing games on the console, or third-person shooters.

 

Actually who cares central server streaming is the future and all you need for it is a internet connection that can stream high quality video and a box that can handle a standard media player. I dont like it but sure as hell this will be the next big thing.

 

my internet connection can't stream a high quality video, so it would be faggy if they changed it.

 

I doubt it has to be high quality.

Console and computer gaming is far from dead. If anything they are both peaking.

 

The companies will for sure push it. Streaming from a server farm means no copy on your hard drive, no pirating and 100% controll for the publisher.

 

Yeah but the catch is is that you'd have to subscribe to those games, and I never subscribe to games. It's the reason you have to subscribe to WoW, it's not a scam, they have to pay for the shitton of machines they are running, I play most of my games online because they come free of charge to play online, I don't want to get dependant on the game because I want my moneys worth, then I get addicted, then I lose my life, sanity, friends, etc.

 

The problem is latency; When it is rendered PC side, you're dealing with latency of your data of where you moved, whether you fired, what you did - that's it. With a central server rendering it for you, this means that you must send mouse, keyboard and voice data to the server, and get back video content. You then also still have the latency from the server that is handling your input and output, to the actual game server itself.

You have FAR more places for failure, and it will feel more laggy - there will be a >50ms lag between when you move your mouse, and when your video moves to match the mouse. Here's why:
50ms for data packet to go from your PC to the server
We're aiming for 30fps, so 33.3ms to render a frame
50ms delay for that frame to reach you, assuming the download is instantaneous
20ms for that frame to be painted to the screen by your LCD

That's what, 153.3ms for your PC to get a frame. It's going to feel disjointed.

It's possible, but we need fiber lines straight up to every terminal (end user's PC), and the least number of hops between the server and the user for this to even be plausible.