Considering NFhr 60 and Scout rifle 75 damage

Maybe we'll implement a damage system like in Get a Life or Fallout (in 3.0 or so)

 

Is there like some evil alien overlord mind-controlling the dev team and putting all these terrible ideas into their heads or is it a naturally occuring phenomenom?

Every suggestion I've heard in the past few days has been so unbelievably godawful that not even the general lack of mental function of the empires forums can explain it, I suspect outside interference.

 

God, that was just an idea.

 

I hoped it was sarcasm but to be honest i wasnt really sure

 

Everyone seems to be coming up with shitloads of really bad ideas though.

When devs start doing it I worry because then it means it might actually be implemented and fuck everything up.

I also worry when a dev shows any sort of interest in a really bad idea.

 

Why do you think that that is a "really bad idea"?

 

Because it really doesn't fit with anything else in empires.

Empires is fast paced, arcadey, almost deathmatch-like at close range, at long range it's impossible to aim that precisely, so you're just going to get people randomly getting cripped or whatever other effects are included.

Furthermore, what does it add? Why does empires need a limb-specific damage system? Why does any game need one for that matter? It works in fallout 3 because you can shoot NPCs with it and it doesn't matter if it ruins their fun because they're computers, although the only time you bother aiming for anything other than the head is if the enemy has a gattling laser or they have super melee powers. On the player however it's just a pointless random thing, designed to eat more stimpacks.

Lastly, people die all the time in empires, who gives a crap if you're crippled? Just die, get healed, or suicide and wait for a revive/respawn. Engineers are all around and if they aren't, you just spawned from a rax or APC, it's just going to make suicides more prevalent.

 

True, but then, stfu about headshot etc realism

 

?

I don't think headshots need to exist because of realism, I think they need to exist to an extent because they are a staple of FPS gaming and some guns suit them, not having them would be like not having a jump key even though empires doesn't really need a jump key. Many guns don't suit them however and therefore they can and should be disabled for any weapon sufficiently inaccurate or powerful as to make aiming precisely impossible or unneccesary, for the exact same reason I think limb-specific damage would be stupid, because random effects are silly.

Headshots are a part of intuitiveness in FPS games because they are so common, removing them is therefore counter-intuitive and empires doesn't need to be more counter-intuitive, however most guns in empires don't actually get aimed at the head a lot of the time, so you can remove headshots from those without issue.

 

I've always thought keeping the weapons of the two teams the same was kinda...bad. There should be some small differences, for instance...

If you wanted to go with the story-line, think of how BE is technologically advanced. You can take for granted their accuracy is better.

NF is more street-tough, and rugged. Therefore, take that they use more force, and do some more damage.

Now these changes aren't much, but they're enough to be noticed.

I do like Chris's idea about headshots, and how some weapons are limited to body-shots only. Some headshot weapons would include..

Scout-Rifle
Pistol1 (both)
And possibly the NFHR/BECAR (Because these are precision weapons, after all)

The SMG2 could use an accuracy buff. I've tried prone-sniping with it (from roughly the BE tower (district) to entrance of the alley-way, and it hit every 3 shots.
The BECAR can get 20-damage single/double-shots with perfect accuracy. Train yourself a bit with it...it'll get overpowered fast.
The Scout-Rifle is hard to balance. 1-shot headshots to non-riflemen seem like the best way, but then it /could/ be overpowered. But anything under that is pretty underpowered for the time it takes that thing to fire.

 

Headshots should deal like 25% more damage, not a full 100% more damage.
If you enable weapons to pick how much extra damage a headshot does, it would help tons with balancing.

 

Now THAT is a compromise I like.
I do believe some weapons should be +100%, but spray weapons like shotty, MP etc should be 50%. But then I think overall they'd need a bit of a buff to compensate.

 

Eh, I don't like any values greater than 40% increase in damage.
It allows for spray and pray to win on luck on who gets that one headshot. Also it helps remove luck as a lot of the weapons are not that accurate. Hell, that is why when I was making shotguns the damage would be so hard to deal with. Luck with headshots in how the bullets spray.

I would make things like HMG or a shotty be 10%
SMGs 15%
Close Range AR 20%
Mid Range AR 25%
Scout Rifle be 40%

 

It should rely more on skill to get a headshot - holding down your fire buttion and shoting randomly shouldn't give a chance to do a headshot. That means if you spray, you'll have a 0% chance to do an headshot, however if you actually aim at head without randomly spraying etc, you should be able to get one.
That being said I prefer headshots to be instant kills (or better damage that is pretty high so you just have like 5-10 hpleft (even with hp upg)).
Not sure how well that would work out in emp, but it should.

Scout rifle is lame ihmo and should be removed, not buffed. Give the scout a smg3 as a temporary solution or something.

 

Ok, I did those edits I mentioned earlier.

For what people really care about:

Rifleman's mortar resist was reduced by 33%, as what his mine and nade resist.
He also went from 0.24 to 0.15 bullet resist.

I'll get some people together for some testing to make sure I didn't accidently make any weapons OP/Suck.

If the little edits work, I guess I'll ask what the devs think.

 

when considering weapons with a high amount of spray, headshots are functionally identical to inaccuracy due to weapon spray - they incur an additional random chance of one person or the other winning based on luck, or the RNG. Therefore, removing them in these cases would have little overall effect on how much "luck" or "skill" is involved if you make the weapons more accurate or more powerful to compensate for the removal of the headshot (buffing weapon damage to compensate for the lack of a headshot would in effect reduce the chance of luck, but with weapons with a high degree of spread or in cases where one or both parties are running or jumping and shooting, there's a lot of luck involved anyway so little tangible difference would be felt).

However, when considering weapons with a low amount of spray, headshots add a huge level of skill into the equation. I specifically have my sensitivity set much lower than other players to enable me to aim with much greater precision than the average population, with obvious drawbacks. With accuracy upgrade, at even somewhat long distances, I can pretty easily score consistent headshots with the ARs and becar/nfhr, and I'm certainly not the only one that attests to be able to do this. (thanks to the viper damage plugin, I can tell when I'm getting headshots, and it's not just client side blood splatters around their head area that I use to judge it). In fact, I calculated with the g4tc stats that I have somewhere around a 12-20% headshot rate with the BECAR, which is much better than simply simply randomly shooting at someone's hitbox and hoping to get a HS. Unfortunately the g4tc stats are currently down but I believe the headshot rate with the HMG is somewhere around 6-8% which can be assumed to be the "random, not shooting at the head" headshot rate.

Therefore, because headshots have little overall effect in the cases of "spray and pray" (if weapons would be buffed to compensate for their lack of headshots) and headshots have a huge effect on careful distance aiming or even fast aiming at close quarters where classes such as riflemen are highly likely to take a knee before they start shooting at you (thereby making their head a stationary target) removing headshots entirely is simply not an option and selectively allowing or disallowing headshots on a per-weapon basis seems to not be worth the effort for the overall addition to gameplay.

Now that I think about it, I would like to add that because it seems as though there is no way to move the center of gaussian distribution of a shotgun blast in the source engine, shotguns should probably have their ability to headshot removed, as technically they are 100% accurate irrespective of the shooter's position or movement.

 

You can do realistic shotgun aiming in source.

shotgun.Aimpoint = Player:GetEyeAngles()+RandomVector( 10, 10, 10)
firebullets.aimvector = shotgun.Aimpoint+RandomVector( 2, 2, 2 )

It's obviously bullshit code, but the general idea is you pick a random point in the aimcone then randomly fire shots around that point.