Closer to enemy start, more res for refinery

Basicaly this idea is a style of level design. Make the maps have higher resource yield for refineries nearer to your enemies base. It would be to your advantage to attack into enemy territory, but it would be to your disadvantage to let them capture your territory. This would intensify the focuses of combat I think. It may end up being worth putting up a ninja barracks in enemy territory to get that refinery that is 3x the refineries near your base, simply because it's next to your enemies base. It would also make it more important to hold your lines, as when the enemy takes territory from you, they gain more than just 1 refinery.



I dunno if this idea makes much sense when I try to explain it, but it really is something that would add to the game. Refinery's wouldn't be just refineryies anymore. 1 refinery wouldn't equal one refinery. It gives much more incentive to push enemy territory, and much more incentive to keep your own. Imagine if cyclopean, the refineries in your starting base gave you 1 res per second, but gave the enemy 3 res per second. You would probably think twice about abandoning your base if you lost it to an enemy rush.

anyhow, just an idea to throw out there for people to play with. There really aren't many pro's and cons to this. Most games would go on as usual. But it would definitely add to the push and pull of a game. It would even require than a team counter attacks to either take equally valuable territory or take back territory that is valuable to the other team.

 

I have had a glass of wine or two so i may be wrong but...

this would require a team based filter to scale the res according to the team that holds the refinerys, or the enemy is actually closest to the strongest refineries or vice versa resulting in similarly unbalanced gameplay either way. becuase the resource point entities dont have a simple scale/multiplier input.

Now i can possibly think of an elaborate chain of outside playing area capture points controlled by logic entities that could scale res, but its complex and long to do and completely untested by me so basically what im saying is, mappers might have a hard time doing this.

 

Well, my best example would be on delta.

3 flags. First flag running towards enemy base will give you 1 res. Second flag 2 res. 3rd flag 4 res. And vice versa. That way you can't just wall off and turret the infantry area access to your base and say fuck it. If you do, the enemy will have enough res income to keep up with research, and they will save money on tanks, which will allow them to keep the game level.

I think it would be interesting to have different refineries worth more than others. Especially if it's inside the enemies main starting base.

 

i would consider the main base being the starting point of each team. I don't know how the code for the refinery works, but just make a variable in the ressources equation (we already have x2 refinery right? ) changing depending on the team that captured it.

 

Comon!
If you can manage to get a resource node close to the enemy base you are probably winning. Having refs near the enemy base produce more would only decrease the enemy's chance of every getting back at you. It would make more sense if resources closer to the enemy gave less.

 

hey, this would mean there could be INTERESTING maps

I like this

 

But this will result into endless games, because every side will have enough ressources to spawn infinite tanks.

So the team, which takes a refinery near to the enemy and can hold it just playing better and should have an advantage.

I like the suggestion of the thread starter. All we need are two different ressource multiplicator for the refs.

 

At the core, this idea creates a stronger unstable equilibrium.

Basically, controlling more territory (refs close to enemy base) makes you exponentially more powerful. Thus, if you're winning, it increases your lead even more.

What this does is make games end faster. Once one side gains a lead, they can easily capitalize upon it due to the increased res generation. That increased lead gives them more power, and thus more control, and more control gives a stronger lead. It's a self-sufficient cycle.

Currently res generation is unstable. More territory = more res = stronger lead. However, you pay res and tickets to gain ground (tanks and people die in a push, usually more from attackers than defenders). So, right now it's not as strong, but there's still an unstable equilibrium.

I personally don't necessarily like this. I prefer a local stable equilibrium, but after a certain point it become unstable. So, for small shifts there is a natural force pushing it back to equilibrium, but once you exceed a certain point the game rewards you with a stronger and stronger lead, letting the end game close up once a clear winner is shown.

I propose a tweak. Create an unstable equilibrium, but not one that feed itself so strongly. This can be done with uneven number of refineries (one team can always have 1 more than the opponent if all are capped), or perhaps the center refineries are special somehow. Perhaps more res. This not only intensifies battles since the center is now more important, but if you capture enough of the land and hold it you will gain a lead and push towards victory. Plus, this forces players out form turtling. Letting the opponent free reign of the special center refs will eventually result in your defeat.

 

What about refinery yield decreasing as you capture more? So the more you have, the less you get from each additional one? So it isn't quite as overpowering the more you get, but you still get an advantage. So if you have 1 it gives 10, 2nd gives 8, third 5 etc.

(for all I know it already does, but seems like it could help make games more interesting and they don't get lopsided quite as quickly)

 

You already have an advantage if you control a refinery near the enemy.

You probably own everything behind said refinery.

 

No. This merely creates diminishing returns for expanding, thus creating less and less incentive to go out and more and more to simply hold up and defend whatever you currently have.

 

woot econ 101.

First, this isnt a game dev suggestion, its more towards mappers, as they can implement this whenever they want.

Right now, it's capture <50% of the res in the map, and you have the advantage all game.

With this, it's capture enemy territory, but at the same time, don't lose your own territory. If you cap everything but lose your starting base tot he enemy, then you and your enemy will still be on equal footing almost.

o, and the thingy about creating less equilibrium is exactly the point. When the game hits equilibrium, nothing happens. everything is balanced. With this method, even capping 1 refinery near an enemy base will throw the equilibrium into chaos rather than simply slightly tilting it.

 

Ah, I wasn't aware. Well, if the mappers DO give different refineries different res generation rates, then we need to give them the tools to illustrate this fact. Otherwise, I look at a map and ASSUME they are all equal, and thus give preference to what I can control (i.e. closer to spawns like starting base). If I am SHOWN that certain refineries will give me more res (like that on on that island over there) by some cue, then I can adjust my strat accordingly.

Perhaps we need to create a standardized set of res generation thresholds, based on some starting value for the map (like 1-1.9x, 2-2.9x, and 3-3.9x). Then, we have certain decals on the map AND minimap that indicate which ref points generate which level.

You do realize I was referring to diminishing returns in regards to another proposed idea which incorporate diminishing returns, correct?

While I agree that creating a stable equilibrium can be bad (stale), I am also against extremely unstable equilbriums. In the case of very unstable equilbriums, once one side gets an early lead they can maintain and increase that lead. Thus, games become dependent on the first few engagements, and end too quickly. There is no real strategic choice, it's merely win early. There has to be, at least locally around the 50% equilibrium, some restoring force such that an early gain doesn't equal victory, there is some cost you have to swallow and the enemy team has a chance to return. But, we want it to be unstable after a certain point such that you aren't fighting an uphill battle to gain victory. You can eventually use your edge to your advantage and push into the end game.



A side note. Since mappers are the ones controlling this generation rate, is there currently independent values for which team holds that point? i.e., if BE hold point A, it generates 1 res/min, but if NF hold it they can get 3 res/min? If not, the original posted idea is bunk anyways until the devs incorporate it, thus making this a dev suggestion.

 

you would need a unreal like onlsaught node system and that would force
players to cap the refinerys in a specific order.

 

I approve of any changes to map-play that avoids slippery slopes.

 

you need to kill empires and reanimate it 10 fuckin times to avoit that