Brenodian Heavy Pistol is a downgrade

I hope someone has brought this up before, but I can't find it, so...

Since only some people can use the second Pistols, they should add some utility. The shotgun pistol sure does. The Brenodian Heavy Pistol though is just... Bad.

BE:
Pistol1: 150 Dmg./Sec.
Pistol2: 140 Dmg./Sec.

Pistol1: 14 Shots/Clip
Pistol2: 10 Shots/Clip

Pistol1: 8/10 Recoil Rating
Pistol2: 7/10 Recoil Rating

Everything else is the same. Same weight, same melee damage, same accuracy, same ammo max. It all out loses. Here is the NF pistols for comparison.

NF:
Pistol1: 150 Dmg./Sec.
Pistol2: 240 Dmg./Sec.

Pistol1: 14 Shots/Clip
Pistol2: 2 Shots/Clip

Pistol1: Long Range
Pistol2: Short Range

Pistol1: Good Accuracy
Pistol2: Negligible Accuracy

These two pistols are different in almost every way, and so serve to very useful purposes. The use of the second BE pistol is for creating handy-caps, and rubbing a slaughter in someone's face.

P.S. Before people bring these up...

• Accuracy and Recoil are different.
• My recoil rating was to simplify the actual recoil numbers. A higher Recoil Rating means LESS recoil, so Pistol1 has LESS recoil than Pistol2.
• Having higher shot damage could only have marginal kill attempt benefits from boundary situations, and it has few. Ex: 150hp rifleman goes down in 1 second from Pistol1, and 1.2 seconds from Pistol2.
• Damage modifiers make little difference. A 2x mod would just make the stats 300dmg/sec vs. 280dmg/sec. It does create more boundary cases where Pistol2 could win, but that is really nit-picking.

 

You can kill with fewer shots. DPS isn't everything, and it's not supposed to be better, different but about equal.

Well I guess it's a good thing there are no 150hp rofflemen.

 

Also, it's the most awesome-sounding gun in the game :D

 

I refer you to my bullets points. :p
"Having higher shot damage could only have marginal kill attempt benefits from boundary situations, and it has few. Ex: 150hp rifleman goes down in 1 second from Pistol1, and 1.2 seconds from Pistol2."

If you are going to argue headshots next, I refer you to the next bullet point.
"Damage modifiers make little difference. A 2x mod would just make the stats 300dmg/sec vs. 280dmg/sec. It does create more boundary cases where Pistol2 could win, but that is really nit-picking."

I agree. It just isn't.

 

I'm flattered.

 

Also, it has a cool profile pic for the kill notification. :D

 

The Brenodi heavy pistol is damn good in close combat. With accuracy-upgrade. In some cases, it's better than all other pistols. If you miss 2 times with the shotty-pistol, you are fucked. But 3-4 hits by the BE heavy pistol always kill. And if those 3 or 4 bullets dont hit... you still have 6-7 more bullets to shoot. It still should shoot a bit faster though and should be a bit more accurate.

 

I use it because people pay more attention to it.

I can do more damage with a well aimed hit, and as people usually duck as soon as they take damage, they are going to stay ducked longer if they lose a bigger chunk of health.

It also is fun to use.

 

So let's do some real math here.

Player has 100hp.
Pistol 1 does 30dmg every .2 sec.
Pistol 2 does 40dmg every .285 sec.
Assuming perfect accuracy and the highest possible RoF, it takes .8 seconds to kill with pistol 1, and .855 seconds with pistol 2.

Do you seriously believe 5 hundredths of a second makes a major difference?

 

His arguement that NF gets a different pistol worth using stands. The BE heavy pistol is redundant...the shotty pistol is not. Besides, an increase in caliber will be a generally be a sizeable increase in damage per shot (say a .40 vs a .45) - the 45 will do more damage....I'd guess the BE Heavy pistol is supposed to be a larger caliber (more like comparing the 92FS to a M1911).....so should see a more sizeable increase in damage, I think. Lower clip size to balance.

 

No, it's not about total damage with perfect accuracy.

It's about pistol 1 doing 30 damage before the person ducks, and pistol 2 doing 40 before he ducks. You don't usually get two shots with something like a pistol against a good enemy, the best thing you can do is make them panic which they are more likely to do if they take more damage per shot and the gun sounds beefier.

 

I agree with that

 

I get lots of kills with a pistol. You kinda' have to as a gren. That or the mortar dance. Pistol1 is all kinds of accurate I usually whip out my pistal when I'm an Engi and I need to pick someone off long range. I like pistols, don't get me wrong, I just think Pistol2 needs to not be a nerfed version of Pistol1.

I only used it for a short while, while I still had a bit of the plusebo effect going for it.

 

I think there's a point missing here - if you've said Pistol 1 does 30 dam per shot and Pistol 2 does 40 dam per shot, surely the major difference is that you can kill an enemy in 3 shots with pistol 2 and it takes 4 shots to kill with pistol 1, no?

I have to say, when gren, I use Pistol 2 100% of the time on BE, solely because it allows me to take down an enemy in fewer hits than pistol 1 (or at least makes me feel like that). When you're firing on someone with a pistol as gren, they generally ain't that scared because they know you only have that as a bullet weapon...you don't get too many chances to pot shot at them before they bring a real weapon on you (after recovering from the mortar ) so it's best to make them count. Pistol 2 aids that.

I think it also might be slightly psychological as most people reference the loud boom sound of pistol 2 against something like the Desert Eagle in CSS which is very effective against all targets, rather than the pat-pat of pistol 1 that reminds them of a light usp-type gun.

 

Exactly, it isn't a quickdraw contest, it's about doing the most damage when you have the opportunity, and opportunities are usually only for one shot, so the fewer of them you need the better.

You can't quantify that, it's just something you experience when you play.

 

Yup it take one less shot, but still takes longer to kill, because you can shoot Pistol1 faster. Also, if you miss a shot with Pistol1 it matters less making it better for close combat, and since it has less recoil it is also better for long range.

I don't know what this one shot deal is you speak of... Maybe that happens in scrims or something... I can almost always unload atleast 4 shots with any oppertunity. Usually it take about 6 to 8 for me to kill in a flash oppertunity like that, so I wouldn't get the kill either, but I would do more damage and hit more times.

Anyways enough put downs. The damage can't go up much, and I think 40 is the right amount anyways. Other possibilities:

• The rate of fire could go up.
• The accuracy, not recoil, could go up.
• Swap Melee ability for an Iron Site + Small Zoom.
• Increase Melee damage to 75.
• Completely change it from high caliber to machine pistol.

I think any one of those would be a reasonable solution by its self.

 

Increasing the recoil dramatically, increasing the accuracy, giving it an ironsight and a 5 damage boost would be nice, it would make it much more of a potshot pistol and less of a general purpose tool like the first pistol is.

So it would be good for fighting from cover, but using it in close combat would be difficult because of the recoil and ROF and sustained fire at long range would also be tricky because of the recoil, but measured shots at intervals would be quite effective.

 

I'm surprised. I regularly take down an enemy in 4 shots, because if I don't they're usually gonna make the switch to a more effective weapon and turn me into swiss cheese. Generally, if i'm in close combat, i'm not going to need to shoot much because my mortar will do the talking and will either make or more often break me. At that point, it's usually a good idea to be around your team

I don't really mind alterations to the pistol, but one thing you should keep in mind is if you take the melee ability away from it, for the gren at least, they'll lose that ability entirely...I can tell you, running around without ammo ain't a good idea, but running around without the ability to hurt your enemy is pretty insane. How many grens do you see melee'ing in a rax because they've got no ammo left?

 

Give it more ammo to compensate then, if the pistol is designed for careful use and you use it carefully, then you shouldn't run out of ammo anyway.

 

all i know for sure is that i love the shotgun pistol, whereas i am apathetic about the heavy pistol. The math can prove whatever, but as is, I don't think the heavy pistol 'feels' very unique. I can see how RA's arguments about redundancy make sense.