[BALANCE] Move Heavy Caliber MG to Mechanical

Physics is the most popular startup research path because of reflective armor and DU. But BE has an advantage, because they can also use ranged canon for the MKII.
So what about the idea to move Heavy Caliber MG to Mechanical?
Result should be that commander selects research strategy depending on the map and team. Right now physics is to often the best choice.


Research would be:
Mechanical Engineering->Advanced Machning->Heavy Caliber MG
or
Mechanical Engineering->Heavy Caliber MG

Pro:
-No advantage for BE
-More equal research strategies
(like chemistry mediums (absorbant, coolant, UML and/or HE and/or HEMG):p )

Con:
-none


Research tree:
http://wiki.empiresmod.com/index.php?title=Image:Empires224TechTreeIcon.gif


PS: Suggestion for the suggestions: Add [BALANCE] for every suggestion, that doesn't need coding or new models. Would maybe make it easier to overlook the suggestions spam

 

Er, once I go physics and get reflective, HMG, and ER, I then go mechanical and get APD and MK2s. So instead I go Reflective, ER, then mechanical and HMG, APD, Mk2s. Slightly longer research time.

So it's not going to make any difference...

Anyway the reason physics is good is not because of DU, it's got an excellent armor and weapon for MK2s, APC stuff is a purely secondary concern.

 

Research paths change from time to time... So just wait and see ^ ^

 

And because physics is good without DU it should not also have DU.
DU rules the early game, especially with teamwork and when the enemy has no good armor.

So if DU would be in Mechanical commanders could go for composite + DU APCs. It's not clear if this would be a good choice for early game. Maybe you run out of ressources to fast when better tanks arrives. Also possible is, that your team gets most of the ressources because of the composite DU APCs and you can achive composite heavies later.
If you stay in Mechanical for the research you will have composite, gas turbine, standard canon + ml and DU heavies very fast. They can own the map until the enemy has better heavies. And till then you have some time to research better weapons.

 

Heh, this suggestion is how it used to be :p

 

Can you read?

He said HEavy Calliber Machinegun, not DU.

 

??

DU is Heavy Caliber Machinegun, and this is his suggestion anyway.

 

Are you seriously suggesting that the way to win is ridiculously expensive barely armed, actually quite weak armored (reflective seems to be far more effective) heavy tanks? Essentially, paper heavies considering the expensive of composite means that paper heavies would probably be just as efficient.

 

I like it. 50 cal is really the only machine gun that can kill infantry effectively, it should be in the 'generic' tree that everyone gets instead of physics. Physics just has everything right now, a good armor engine cannon mg and some lolweapons.

 

Yeah, let's put the best weapons in the tree EVERYONE OPENS.

 

/doublefacepalm but i laughed
And it points out something obvious, why is DU, a good weapon, reseached with .50 cal, another good weapon?
Of course anti infantry reseach is secondary but its helpfull so it willl get reseached anyway i think

Wouldnt that just balance all trees? Thats the excact reason why he suggested to move DU ... and DU is only the best weapon in 2.24, that will most likly be changed in 2.25 anyway

 

Please don't change DU. It's only anti tank and anti big buildings so it should be strong.

 

i say no, i love the red side, and i can win aginst DU rushes pretty well, the trick is to play to your strength, if im facing du i lock my VF and letem granade your apc's, then i get mediums with salvo and UML, then i get he-mg and ranged, (i like accuracy unless your turret farming in wich case i go he for splash damage) and badda bing your in trouble, youve blown all your money, if you didnt cap the map i got the game. sure its hard, but commanders are supposed to be skilled enough to beat that rush, and (ftw) i am, plus engineers can turret your apc's pretty easy, theyre so slow now ahaha.

:edit, ive also found that DU rush fails vs most skilled coms with a semi decent team when ive tryed it.

 

Given that example, I'd say the skill lies with the grenadiers.

 

That reminds me sip you are not allowed to make comments about research or balance because you think absorbant coolant UML NF MEDIUMS are not only valid, but better than all the other research possibilities.

 

I find this unbalancing
Having every team research 50 cals every game? Its already depressing not being able to kill an APC with a mg

 

lol yea, and nothing beats throwing nades on a apc with composit and a fission engine, and a he-mg and rampaging as everyone goes WTF A NADE APC?!? LOLWUT IT TOOK OUR RAX!?! FAILLLZZZ

 

Of course chemistry mediums are not the best tanks you can think about. But every time I choosed them, my team won :p

E.g. last time on emp_forest I choosed them. It's a very open map and easy to drive. So HEMG will own DU and it's no problem to drive NF mediums. And I must not say that we won this map clearly, although some team members doesn't like them.

I'm just bored to research always the same stuff.

 

We won because the other team were a pile of fucking idiots, not because the tanks were any good. We would have won with paper lights I expect.

I win games without building radars, this does not mean that not building a radar is the key to victory.

 

Um... mechanical doesn't have weapons, I don't see the point in fugging that up...
Whilst you may have to fiddle with the consistency (name changes and suchlike), does anyone else feel these 3 weapons are best suited to electrical? It may balance that tree a little more, currently reactive, 3 phase and guided/homing is a pretty nice layout all the way to heavies for NF, BE has little except for rails which are pretty... specific.