Armor: Different weight amounts is obsolete

In my opinion having a different weight for every armor type is obsolete.
It is much easier to balance armor without having a different weight for every armor type in my opinion.

For example,

Hitpoints Per Plate:

Standard - 44.3
Composite - 96
Reactive - 84
Reflective - 75
Regenerative - 93.75
Abosrbant - 66.5

Hitpoints Per Weight:

Standard - 2.886
Composite - 9.6
Reactive - 4.2
Reflective - 5
Regenerative - 6.25
Absorbant - 5.32

Every armor should weigh 10 in my opinion.
And an armor's cost should be based on the resistances of the armor, research cost, research time and hitpoints.
So instead of adding 2.5 inches of armor to your tank, we would speak in terms of tons of armor we would add to our tank.

And please, don't bring up the subject of "realism".

"Fuck realism, fun first!"

 

Players don't care about cost unless the tank is too expensive.
Bad idea.

 

Players will deliberately lower the armor they have on their tank so they can buy it; then it does in two seconds.

 

Realism? Ok, because this is completely unrelated.

The fewer differences between plates of armor, the easier the armor is to balance.

The smaller the price difference, the easier it is to balance weapon weight.
The smaller the weight difference, the easier it is to balance quality.
The smaller the health difference, the easier it is to balance power.
The smaller the difference, the less any choices matter at all.

Few things worth doing are easy.

 

Yes, I am not trying to over simplify things.

It's just that I think the thing weight is obsolete, and that it is easier to balance the game without it.

Also:

Empty, wtf? What has this to do with giving all armors the same weight?

 

Lemme ask you something.

Would u rather use 3 "heavy" armor plates which cost 100each with 10 hp and 95% dmg reduction...
or 6 "light" plates which cost 20 each with 100 hp?

i dont know about you but i would use the former despite almost costing 2.5x the ammount to use.

ignoring a variabel to an armor such as weight is pure lazyness.
it can in conjugation with the other variables create a very unique fast repaired armortype.
or merely slightly balance the diffrenses between armors by making one quicker to repair.
it may seem like a small thing, yet its there to make diffrenses between the armors, if we started to scrap the variables then we may aswell make all armors the same... which would be boring, right?

 

So? "Quicker to repair", isn't that related to HP and not to weight?

 

Hmmm now that you mention it, 6 plates of the same weight with 5 hp would do the same trick i guess ^_^

*stare at the clock*

i blame my logical failure on the ammount of time ive been awake.

 

People aren't going to take cheaper armor into account when they make their tanks, they're just going to pick the best.

Basically, res is the commanders money, and weight is an individual players 'budget'

Very few players make cheaper tanks.

 

Let me try to explain it again - I am for making all plates weigh 10 each.

This way I think it will be easier to balance armors.

Let's say a tank can have 3 plates on each side, and that 1 plate of armor weighs 15, has 50HP and costs 20 each.

Let's say I have 2 plates of armor on all my sides.

8 Plates,
Weighs 120,
400 HP,
And costs 160 res in total.

Now, every plate has 50HP, but when we look at the Per Weight ratio we see it has only 3.33 HP per unit of "weight".

If we wan't to have the same armor plate, weighing 10, but with an both an equal HP Per Weight ratio and an equal HP Per Res ratio, we should change the stats of the armor.

Therefore, the new armor stats will look like this:

Weighs 10
Has 33.3 HP per plate,
And costs 13(13.32 Round Off) res per plate.

So, if we sum that up we get:

Old(50 HP, 20 Res): 3.33 HP Per Unit of Weight, 2.5 HP Per Unit of Res
New(33.3 HP, 13.32 Res): 3.33 HP Per Unit of Weight, 2.5 HP Per Unit of Res

The old armor may seem to better per plate, but if we look at the Per Weight and the Per Res ratio, then they are both equal.

EDIT:
(Fixed math error)
Again, same tank - same armor - different stats. This time we have 3 plates per side on our new tank(as that is the maximum).

Old:
8 Plates,
Weighs 120,
400 HP,
And costs 160 res in total.

New:
12 PLates,
Weights 120,
399,6 HP,
And costs 156 res in total(If the armor price is round off down to 13).

Tanks are indeed cheaper, but you can add more armor because armor weighs less.

EDIT 2: Fixed math errors -.-"

Also, the chassis may need to be rebalanced aswel.

 

Are you dumb, or just stupid.

 

Neither, I just don't understand what your post has to do with removing the weight diversity of armor plates. And I was replying to a few others.

I will repost my math:

 

id always wanted to give armor "heat dissipation" penalties per plate ever since the value was added to "plain armor" sadly though it doesn't do anything

basically, you could replace weight for heat dissipation or just keep weight and add heat dissapation

 

DOES ANYONE HERE ON THIS FRICKING FORUM UNDERSTAND WHAT I MEAN?

/rage

No, but seriously - Why is everyone posting(in my opinion) unrelated stuff?

 

Honestly, it is because you have such a poor idea of what balance is that nobody wants to really give a genuine opinion on your ideas. The clear point of this is when your example of two "balanced" armors included one that was almost strictly better than the other. Literally, it is only worse in the case of obscure rounding issues.

 

Then what is balance? Please be so kind to explain that to me, I would appreciate it.

In my opinion the armors are different, but the Cost/HP and the Weight/HP ratio stays the same.

Also(FFS, I screwed up the math):

Let's sugest that with my previous tank design I could fit 2 plates of armor on each side max.
The new armor weighs less, thus I can fit more armor.
So instead of 2 plates of armor on each side I can now fit 3 plates of armor on each side.

 

I seriously do not know why I am bothering to respond except for the sake of stomping out ignorance. Your assessment is wrong, and you do not know what you are talking about.

By your logic a 3 HP armor that weighs 1 lb is just as good as a 99HP piece of armor that weighs 33lbs.

This assessment is wrong except in obscure cases of rounding errors. I would you you to present one scenario where your lighter armor is more useful.

 

EMP_likes_heavy_Plates got a tank capable of fitting unlimited ammount of possible plates as long as weight allows and he need 5 more lb than what he got in order to fit the weapon called "destroyer of worlds" while also using three 33 lb plates.
sadly enough the 33lb plate user now have to skip a whooping 99 hp instead of just 15 if he researched the lighter armor.
how sad for him.

/pwnd. :p

 

Are you sugesting that I am ignorant? Because if you are I eager to know what makes you think that. Also, I was just wondering what your idea of "balance" was...

Hurr durr, might wan't to explain why? Why am I "wrong"? And, oh gosh - here we do again "you do not know what you are talking about", could you please elaborate? What is it that I don't know where I am talking about?

Wow, just wow. Did I say that? Could you quote a statement of mine that sugests that? In my opinion I did not say that a 3 HP armor weighing 1lb is the same as "good" as an armor weighing 33lbs and having 99HP. I said that the ratio stays the same, and because of that the armors are have "equal" ratios(Cost/HP and Weight/HP).

And as I said in a previous post in this thread, chassis may need rebalancing. If you wan't to, I can explain to you what I mean by this.

I didn't intend to make the lighter armor more useful then the "heavier" armor, I was trying to sugest something, with the intention that it could possibly make it easier to balance armors(As you won't have to deal with the Weight/HP ratio anymore in my opinion).

 

*sigh*

The burden of proof falls onto you. Your arguments thus far:

1: Every armor should weigh 10, because different weights makes it harder to balance. You could then perceive how much health the armor was adding by how much weight you were adding.

2: We should focus on changing the health of the armor to balance them, with the same health to weight ratio

If your argument is that every armor should come in the same 'units of weight' you have expressed yourself very poorly. You would be arguing then, for example, that armor should be added in units of 5 lbs, and that the plate system should be removed. Armor then simply has different qualities such as HP per weight and resistances, but there is no longer a concept of armor per plate.

By arguing that they should be made into identical weight plates, you entirely remove the concept of efficiency per plate versus efficiency per unit weight. Heavy armor cannot exist, and you merely get shades of armor that are better or worse across all situations.

The current system enables actual 'heavy tanks' by granting some armor types a greater health per plate, but a lower health per weight. Conversely, armors like absorbent are very efficient per unit weight, but quite simply cannot have as much total armor.

By creating a system where this balance is totally removed, you just remove yet another layer of strategy from the research tree. Indeed, this would be a convenient way to balance upgrades if players just had tanks that they 'leveled up' and spent points on, but they are instead part of a greater whole, and must fight according to their commander's strategy.