Well I’m not entirely sure on how to begin... 2.23 gets released. It included a couple of new restriction filters for mappers and build/dmg modifiers which allows mappers to make a bit more interesting maps which I think is awesome. The new vehicle handling is also great, now tank wars is more enjoyable due to better control. Infantry weapons got improved.... a lot... from my point of perspective... this was a very very bad move. You see... weapons are now even more lethal than 2.12... in 2.12 the weapons had extreme dmg yet very bad accuracy, this leads to that close combat fights last for a millisecond, yet at long-range its quite bad unless you got good burst control... which I dare say 90% of the community totally lack. Hence, people tended to rush up-close and rape a whole squad in seconds using insane dmg and sudden attacks. In 2.23 it’s a bit different, now we have extreme accuracy yet slightly lower damage. This on the other hand... is far far worse... since for example with carbine, you can actually make sure that 50% of your hits are headshots... making it in skilled hands a very very lethal weapon. The same story goes for AR's and HR's... but the carbine is a bit unique since it can do perfect shoots every time while crouching/proning. it also performs like a regular AR while standing... which allows you to raise walls until the point where only a millimetre of your head is showing and still nail down any enemy. In short, it’s too powerful. The same goes with most weapons currently available (SMG1, SMG2, AR's, HR/CAR). The problem is that it doesn’t matter if the weapon only does 20 dmg per hit if it is capable of hitting with each of those bullets. The whole pushback physic messes things up. The first one to hit will make its opponent get pushed back (or fly if the person is proning) rendering their aim useless so they can’t hit back unless they hide and re-attack. In other words: if you get 1 bullet you should instantly go and hide... if done so, your survival rate is far higher... and due to that fact... you should at no point use prone unless at a hill (so you fly back into cover when hit)... hence rendering it quite useless. The new way to fight really... is to get a comm mark... you stay next to a cover... put up iron sight -> SPRINT out of cover -> instant crouch -> burst down the enemy -> hide again before latency/enemy reaction comes into play. It’s not like the 2.2 ideas were if I’m correct... it’s rather ironic that we are back to 2.12. Engineers are back to the 2.12 revive/nadespam job... instead of taking use of the healing capability. in short... I suggest we revert back weapons to more like the 2.2 ways were... not as much as 2.2, but somewhere in-between that and the current... because the current gunfights are just stupid. I can snipe a person which is on the brink of being invisible due to max view distance and kill him in 5 sec... I find no amusement in it since they are way too quick and it just become chaotic with more players. I score off insane amount of kills and I’m all jolly for that... but the sense of killing someone was more "rewarding" in the past. So... please nerf the accuracy/dmg in order to gain a bit longer fights where tactics come a bit more into play. I thought the carbine was overpowered already in 2.22... Improving its accuracy even further was just stupid. I’ll provide 2 screenshots of what if mean... Carbine in public in 2.22 (death by mortar) Carbine in Scrim in 2.23 (2 killspawns, 2 deaths by LT Chaingun, 2 "normal" deaths by infantry) and this is highly relevant to the new barracks change. which I have to say I like partially... yet 300 would be sufficient to sort it out... or optionally change all official maps starting resources to allow 2 forward raxes in the start of a game in order to allow games in the public (which will be highly populated by rookies) to actually lose a forward rax and not lose the whole game. In a 20+ vs. 20+ games such things won’t occur... but in 5vs5 or 10vs10 a forward rax win/lose the game in most cases or at the very least put one team to a hideous disadvantage... Now... why is this relevant to improved infantry weapons? In short terms u can kill/be killed very rapidly in the new version and therefore time to build up defences or flank the enemy simply isn’t there... one team die in seconds after the fight initiate normally. If there is no forward rax next to them (In pub games without maxed servers you can only have 1 at a specific location in the start... that means u can cover 1 front.. if its lost u lose all fronts.) then they are forced to walk a hideously long way back to battle while the enemy most likely already have set up a small base rendering further attacks kinda futile unless your team is highly superior to the enemy. Ways to counter this, as mentioned above... is to either set its costs to 300 or simply increase the starting resources for the team. A 3rd option (that I found while browsing the forums) which I suggest is implemented alongside with either of the 2 mentioned above is to set a newly placed barracks health to half. This is to prevent an instant death before the engineers get time to react... which happens quite frequently with things like VF's and raxes. Currently fights are too fast phased and it’s too easy to lose important points early on which remove fun battles between the teams. (Do note: I’m not saying its fast phased as in that it’s too fast for me... I’m doing just fine and majorly kicking ass... but I find no enjoyment in doing so since the resistance ends in a few seconds) Soo... slow down things a notch so we can have back the old epic fights (not 2.2 types though... those were just hideous stalemates with no end where u had to melee your target to death because you ran out of ammo) anyway... while talking about infantry.... Grenadiers vs. Vehicles. Ok.... vehicles get a buff in armour to allow longer fights between vehicles and actually make them survive longer while fighting each other... all cool I suppose. Buuuuuuutttt.... grenadiers didn’t scale in deadliness against these and they are rendered quite defenceless due to the improved vehicle steering and handbrakes (which helps A LOT against being hit by the grens, even in a stupid apc/afv if you are a good driver) since being able to avoid being hit in conjugation of having very heavy armour makes the survivability hit the roof. If I get a reactive 3phase LT I never get hit by grens unless it’s an extremely tight space... yet most maps are rather open. If its regen+ an improved engine, then I can keep driving on forever without ever fearing for my life since the grens simply don’t do enough dmg to keep up with the regenerating armour. (this doesn’t just apply to 3phase LT's... any vehicle work the same way vs. grens unless its advanced coolant engines or such) while grenadiers should get a boost for their rockets (NOT THE MORTAR, the mortar is fine the way it is... the RPG is the "real" anti-vehicle weaponry after all) I think the riflemen and scouts should get an upgrade as well in their sticky bombs to scale alongside. I think that more armour for the vehicles is cool and all for better vehicle vs. vehicle fights... but infantry SHOULD still be a big part of the game play past the early beginning, hence, I think the infantry vs. vehicle weaponry should scale alongside with it. Buuuuttt... that’s not the only problem. Engines... are too fast... (At least in some vehicles) I mean come on, when u drive faster than rockets from missile batteries and RPG launchers then there is something very wrong. (Once again, it’s not a whine: I’m not the type who goes gren and kill vehicles... I drive vehicles instead and lol @ grens pathetic attempts to kill me.) I suggest they are scaled down a bit in terms of speed. By doing so the cannons of the Brenodi tanks (which are their specialization) would become more useful in fighting the pesky light tanks which fly around like little bees. the problem is that you need around 4-5 hits to destroy one side of a LT with reactive plating... 4-5 hits simply won’t happen unless it’s a newb driver or if you got others to aid ya. Not to mention that they love to hump you on the side and rape with missiles. So yea.... slow down the top speed engines along with the others as well and improve infantry vs. vehicle weaponry. I mean if it’s a bloody advanced coolant engine, then let it be awesome for big size heat demanding weaponry but let it do fuck all in terms of speed. If it’s a 3phase, then let the thing be fast, but don’t make it faster than missiles because that’s just silly. also, scale down the cooling slightly of the standard engine (not a lot, just a tiny bit) because it removes the use of things such as bio engine unless you plan to get nukes... + LT's with just reactive become hideously powerful =S
now while on the topic of vehicles and 2.23... It’s obvious ain’t it? I gotta bring up MK2 chassis. BUT GUESS WHAT! I wanna keep them! Instead I suggest the following: Increase the weapon size of missiles and cannons. Now what does that mean? Change the current weaponry so that for example nukes and rail guns become a 4slot weapon. And lets say salvo homing become a 3 slot. In that way a wider weapon distribution could be applied and keep the very best weaponry for the best tanks. (And keep great weaponry away from things such as the MK2 LT) or for the heck of it... You may as well add a 5 slot type of weaponry which could represent nukes or some kind of demolisher cannon on heavys... weights a fuck and only 1 position of it available. (But badass) then a dual 4 slot could be added on NF and give some super missile spam battery for em. While BE gets their own counterpart but in terms of cannons ofc. Standard MK1 = 1 slot CN/ML/MG APC = 3 slot MG/GL MK2 NF = 2 slot ML, 1 slot CN/MG MK2 BE = 2 slot CN, 1 slot ML/MG Med NF = 3 slot ML, 2 slot CN/MG Med BE = 3 slot CN, 2 slot ML/MG Med MK2 NF = 4 slot ML, 3 slot CN, 2 slot MG Med MK2 BE = 4 slot CN, 3 slot ML, 2 slot MG APC MK2 = 3 slot MG/GL Heavy NF = two 4 slot ML, 4 slot CN, 2 slot MG Heavy BE = two 4 slot CN, 4 slot ML, 2 slot MG Heavy MK2 NF = 5 slot+4 slot ML, 5 slot CN, 2 slot MG Heavy MK2 BE = two 5 slot CN, 5 slot ML, 2 slot MG MK2's obtain slightly more weight to fit weaponry (or in apcs case, more armour) upgraded chassis = mk2 light advanced chassis = mk2 apcs (+mk2 meds if meds are researched) Optimized engineering = is available after heavys are researched a MK2 heavy/med/apc with more weight capacity would be cool (no new models or anything, just add some weight to the thing so the top weaponry can be used with several plates as well and change the weapon slot sizes) I guess the idea popped up when I saw drags testing scripts for the new vehicles with a much broader sections of weaponry and armour for vehicles. Since this would fit perfectly when more weaponry become available. I think by slowing down infantry battles, make infantry capable of combating vehicles a bit better, slowing down the vehicles as a whole and still keep the armour would make vehicle battles and battles as a whole longer and more enjoyable instead of a blitzkrieg where all that matters is who that ram their cannons into the enemies ass and unloads first. It would be nice to actually see all chassis types of tanks in the same game for once I think the approach regarding tanks should be like the spaceships in the online game called eve... you can make choices between what to advance in... Get a large ship and you get a constant boost in the amount of weaponry and defences you can put on. Or you improve your defences and make the actually defence you can put on far better. Or you focus on improving the actual weaponry. Without proper weaponry you can’t do anything with just defence. Without proper defence you can’t do anything with just weaponry. Without a proper ship you can’t fit so much weaponry or defence systems making the ship quite useless. But on the other hand... if you just get a big fat ship without any weaponry or defence it will do fuck all. Hence, without spreading out your choices constantly you won’t be optimal... I’d like to see that in empires too. In short: I don’t want everyone to go WOOP BEST ARMOR, WOOP BEST ENGINE, WOOP BEST WAEPON, WOOP BEST CHASSIS, and GG. id prefer if the games could be won by gradually upgrading weapons and chassis and make smaller upgrades unlock automatically while on the way of getting the really really awesome stuff for the heavys so that getting all the different chassis would be actually useful. (and jump around in the trees instead of going in straight lines to the top thing) in the same way that organic armour/engine unlocked in drags testing scripts when you got the biology tech before getting the regenerative armour and the biodiesel engine basically. from my view it seems like the devs point of interest lies within the tanks currently... so I think these changes would assist in your goal (if the goal is what I believe it is) Ah and let’s not forget, if the things I mentioned regarding high-end weaponry is implemented, make sure that their dmg vs. buildings is not as high as against tanks. and please configure some of the current weaponry, since atm some of it works just like arty vs. buildings which messes things up when for example raxes cost 400 res and die in a short moment from 2 MK2 LT's roaming around randomly. sooo.... yea... summarise 2 new vehicle weapon sizes to balance out chassis in relevance to weaponry slow down the game play as a whole (lethality of players and engine speeds) more weapons and armours for vehicles (thermal missiles for plasma which actually do a lot of heat as an example and a 3slot grenade for apcs) make infantry be able to combat tanks (well when heavys and stuff appear I don’t mind if they can do fuck all... that’s a different stage of the game imo) half starting hp of larger buildings 300 res per rax or more starting cash on the official maps certain vehicle weapons dmg vs. structures reduced I might not be in the test group but I want to improve this mod still Thank you for your time if you read this. PS: This took Trickster 20 minutes to proof-read and fix...WEAPON FFS NOT WEPON
Scardybob to make it even more compact without removing the logic of why i want changes to occur is a rather difficult task. did you even see how many things the post actually covered, or was that a tldr post? try separating each part of the post where one change is being discussed regarding and i think you get my point. anyway, id be more happy if you commented something else than that your eyes are bleeding.
Zeke has a pretty nice k/d ratio in one of them >_>.. And thanks to my beloved short-term memory i forgot most of the text by the time i was done reading and thinking of an answer. All i can say is that it's well-formulated and probably thought through a lot. But i must ask the following question due to your name, who are you? I'll have to agree with Scardy, although my memory was the one who got fucked up, not my eyes. Although i do wear glasses, so i suppose my eyes would count as fucked up as well..
i once herd the idea of making missiles a support weapon, forgoing normal damage for special effects and area of effect (for example, wipe all missile types and make more missiles in the nature of this: Bio compound missile barrage: 4 dumb missiles with area of effect bio hurtness, 20 pure damage per hit (3 slot) Plasma container missile: 1 missiles Electrical Pulse missile: slow firing dumb missile that short circuits cooling and driving systems, giving sizable heat application and engine stalling over a range of 400 units (HE range), 40 damage per direct hit (2 slot) Guided DU Armor piercer delivery system: fast small guided missile damages armor 3 times more then hull, armor damage 90, hull damage 30, building damage 25 (2 slot) my guess is its vess
in comparison to the current weponry, yes it had. the first bullet was accurate but the later ones were not. im talking LONG distance accuracy and im not comparing it to 2.2 weponry, im comparing it to the current in 2.23. the weponry had a hideously high dmg applied to them and no falloff, therefor for example the BEHR could kill in 3 bullets, there was no need of accuracy if you could controll your fire. with the current weponry, the carbine as example, you can can crouch down and do continous fire for basically the whole clip without noticing diffrense in accuracy.
No wall of text! We have like three threads already with the news thread and the godsent thread, you can post your opinouns there and seperate your wall of text and also take up different aspect at those threads instead of making a super wall of text abuot the whole goddamn update again. Fail.
Zeke, you used the NFAR in 2.12 at least as much as me, so you know just a well as me that in 2.12 the NFAR was a DEATHLASER!! You only needed to crouch to get insane accuracy while emptying a clip in full spray mode. The BE HAR wasn't far off and had a bigger clip to compensate. The heavy rifle and carbine weren't used because they were weaker versions of the assault rifles. ANY claim that the current rifles can compare to awesome power of the 2.12 rifles is utter male cow excrement. In fact, it's only with this update that I've been able to somewhat feel like I can kill stuff fast enough again to stand out from the average players crouching behind walls and waiting for people to blunder into their field of fire. Huzzah, assaulting is back. Also, the carbine can't do continuous fire. I know what you mean, but just because YOU can use it to awesome effect in a game or two on certain maps doesn't mean it's unbalanced in general, it just means it suits your playstyle in those maps and that the other side had no one to counter you (i.e. me with a heavy rifle or accuracy upgraded assault rifle).
