Ok my opinion: RIFLES: BE has a big advantage because of the assault rifles. BEAR is close,medium and long range. BEHR is very good at close range. NFAR is very good at close range NFHR is very good at long range and medicore at medium range. BE has a advantage at medium range AND BE has a rifle that is good at any range the BEAR, NF has not such a weapon. Furthermore, you need ALOT OF SKILL to be really good with the NFHR. You dont need that skill with the BEAR. I guess a really skilled NFHR player would win against every other gun, exept close range. But as said you need to much skill or else you arent good enough to be usefull. I guess that with the rifles as they are now, on a public game the BEAR would be the new 2.12 NFAR. SMGS: You can strafe-dodge and shot with the smg2 and actually hit the enemy. Thats not so easy with the assault rifles, means you can win easily against an rifleman as engineer. PISTOLS: Still overpowered, cause to much accuracy MORTAR: Best weapon ingame atm EDIT: THE SPEED OF INFANTRY You can run to people and melee them bevor they can kill you (without melee upgrage) You can drop nades bevor they kill you so they explode too after you are dead. APC's Thats just a guess, but I think if you get an APC with spawn ability into the enemy base you could decon there rax bevor they can kill you. If everybody in the APC spawns as engineer I guess its imposible to kill them all bevor they destroy the entire base. BUNYHOP GAYNESS I had alot situations today in which I and my enemy bunnyhoped & strafed around each other til someone managed to randomly killed one of us.
potentially the BEAR and the NFAR need to be looked at everything else seems fine, or at least don't need to be drastically overhauled seriously, just because you're a rifleman doesn't mean you should instantly kill infantry
well when you can do f*** all else to help your team, including being generally bad vs tanks and unable to build, then I think it's fair if they pwn infantry no contest. there should never a time where an SMG is better than a rifle. rifles should be better than SMGs in ANY situation.
Yeah for sure The main gripe today seemed to be the Rate of Fire change. The combat just seems slow and boring now, its not the same fast paced action I enjoyed so much. But pretty much Mayama got it completely right and sandbag has a very valid point
would it help these playtests at all to slow down the server's timescale during a full test? like something minor such as host_timescale 0.85 or 0.8 then people could give more accurate feedback about the dmg and RoF.
My only concern was the nfhr, untill i managed to get 5 kills in a row with it. So it might have been me, since it's a totally new way of fighting (i've always used the assault rifles as rifleman). Still in smaller maps i do think it's not that effective compared to other rifles, or even other weapons. Even on bigger maps i think if there's one gun that won't be used much, it'll probably be the nfhr. I did not really notice that the nf weapons were less good than the be weapons (with the possible exception of the hr). In district both nf and be have had their chances. In crossroads on the other hand i did notice that nf had trouble with killing be, so i won't say that it isn't true either. Things i like about the current settings: - In smaller infantry maps all classes are now effective - In big commander maps rifleman still own other classes, but they can't take on entire groups of people anymore - Firefights take longer - The previous 2 points make it more important to work together. Without instagib rifles there's actually time to work together, cause you do not die in a hartbeat - For me the most important thing is that not only does it require more teamwork, i automaticly stayed with teammembers more. This is important cause otherwise the current empires players wouldn't adjust easily enough. What has me concerned: - I hope the current players will adjust quickly enough. It plays almost entirely different and i can see many riflemen complain about it.
I think the biggest problem with the NFAR was that I wasnt able to see why I killed that guy in under a second and I emptied a whole clip on the next one and he doesnt even bleed. With the 3 other rifles I always saw that it was my fault if the enemy killed me bevor I killed him. It was like not getting feedback what happened with my gun. And I tested it, you can empty half a clip on a guy 5-8 meters away and he dies if you use the BEAR OR BEHR. If you use the NFAR he is still alive. That might be necassary in terms of gamebalance but it is hard to believe, I mean it took me out of the game world every time it happened. My "sense of reality" in my brain told my every time "this cant be right, more than 10 bullets and that guy is still alive." EDIT: Ok last post Something in 2.12 that really bugged me was the fact that both BE rifles are almost the same, yes I know the differences but if you would remove one of them, do you really would miss something? I mean NF has two totaly different weapons so why not make the BEAR the standart weapon and the BEHR a fancy special gun like dunno deadly fast 3 round bursts or autoshooty. I mean even with the damage dropoff and stuff they dont feel really different cause ingame you dont see much difference if you need 3 or 4 bullets to kill someone.
Something like this was a BIG problem. The way I see it, the rifles are generally inconsistent in that the same things don't always work. Crouching sometimes doesn't give a big boost to accuracy, and generally there seems to be some strange issues going on. For instance, I camped outside NF's last flag - in the little niche ontop of those two boxes quite a lot (with the BEHR). For some reason, when the troops came around the corner, whether or not I hit them seemed quite reliant on luck. But whenever they came within 4 feet of me, I pretty much insta-gibbed them. There are two major gripes I have with the weapons, and one minor one. These are that: 1) The guns are not consistent in play. Crouching doesn't always give a big boost, and prone accuracy may or may not help. In the main, iron sights seem to work, but proning with iron sights on doesn't really give great accuracy - I still see the bullets fly 2 feet wide of my target at 100 metres. It shouldn't really be like that in prone mode...well to me anyway. 2) The run & gun speed correlation. This is a really important gripe actually, because right now I feel that infantry combat has slowed down a tremendous amount. Right now, compared to run speed we are shooting incredibly slow. Mayama made the point that you can melee someone to death before they can shoot you down, well it didn't quite work for me, but I could on occasion run right passed someone before they could pwn me. This should definately not be the case...it's never a good idea to slow the combat to the point where it's a choice to ignore fighting. That's what we've got the scout class for. 3) A minor gripe which mayama already mentioned is that some of the weapons feel undifferentiated. I feel we should have an uber close combat rifle (with highly bumbed RoF - but not as high as 2.12 obviously), and an okay close but really quite good medium-long distance rifle.
Heh, incidentally that was exactly what I had in mind with the BEHR :p Currently changing weapon scripts around a bit.
I think the problem is that the BEHR looks like a big badass weapon and people get confused if it isnt able to kill people 10 meters away. Thats the major problem with damage falloff, cause we are used to guns that are able to kill people at LONG range cause they behave like that in the real world. So if you play a game that uses weapons that are modeled in some sort of way after those real weapons you expect that it behaves like that. It destroys the plausibility of the world, there must be a explanation why those bullets dont damage anything after some meters. And that explanation must be clear visible on the weapon and not 30 lines of text in some handbook or discription. Sure players get used to it but then you have a horde of old players that yells at the new ones why they use the BEHR if the combat is not short range. Like we have it now with alot of tank weapons...
Actually, real-life weapons aren't that very much built for long-range combat. SMGs have an effective range of about 50-200 metres, and assault rifles range between 400 and 800 metres. Now, that might be long range, but you need to keep speed of the target, wind direction and distance in mind. Firing at a moving target 400 metres away is not very easy, so don't say it is :p
This thread is deemed outdated. New thread for new scripts here: http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=6806
