There seriously needs to be a fix to the nuke. How should it be? I say remove the heat added to other tanks and make it all about damage. One weapon shouldn't make 3 other engines obsolete (Fission, 3phase, Gas). And for heat weapons, there are already plasma.
I suggest getting all the facts together before starting a discussion. I'm using the very latest svn script. Cost: 150 Damage: 200 Speed: 1000 Heat (to own tank): 50 Weight: 200 Cycle time: 10 Clip size: 6 Clips: 1 (total ammo 12) Reload time: 12 Spread: 1.25 Heat to target: 40 The heat given to targets should be 40 + 200x0.025 = 45 per shot. (for any armor but regen, abs, plain) I only recently tested nukes, they gave about 80-90 heat to target now with the reduced "heat to target") So its no longer an instant overheat for enemy tanks if they are lucky.
I'm not too entirely sure why its giving such extream HeatToTarget. I have followed it all through the code, and it looks clear. I'm going to keep looking for it, but, if we can't fix it, figure out a compensation for it, like, reduce it down to 15 or something.
Someone some time ago suggested that probably all armor plates are getting hit by the nuke heat, so tank gets a few times more heat than it should. I also followed it through code but found nothing suspicious. However, We are lucky because only the vehicles recive heat at all, so nerfing nuke_heat will be equal to nerfing nuke_to_vehicle_heat. But... It's not the only problem. The other one is that a direct nuke hit gives a few times less heat than an indirect hit. This THE bug that pisses off everyone. I'll try to debug it with Kylegar.
I don't understand this. A direct hit at a certain point of the hull results in normal unbugged heat to target. All the other hits give the double amount of heat. This means receiving the correct amount of heat cannot be called a bug or a problem?
Heat is retarded just fucking get rid of the massive heat to target. Worst gameplay decision ever. Hey yeah lets add heat so if you fire to much YOU CAN"T MOVE then lets add a weapon with massive splash that does a shitload of heat damage so if you have like 2-3 of them NOONE WILL BE ABLE TO FIRE/MOVE LOLOLOL AWESOME!!!!!! Not. Heat is retarded in general and becomes uber retarded with a high splash weapon like nukes. Tank combat should be fun intuitive and fluid. I fail to see why heat is STILL in the game. That being said heat isn't likely going to be removed for 2.2 but the least that could be done is get rid of the retarded massive heat to target weapons and lower average heat production on weapons. Change plasma to burn(think bio but over short time) and give nukes more damage/lower weight to compensate for reducing their heat to target significantly. Also slow arties down to very slow and give them pimp dmg.
Huh, I didn't think of that. But, I think HeatToTarget is being applied directly to the CEmpVehicle, not to the armor. Reef, add me to steamfriends if you havent already, and we can work this out after I'm done with class
@emp_recruit Heat is to balance, I thought you were smart enough to know that. Now nukes are a situation where it didn't work out, but normally, heat is to stop you overusing certain weapons in full automatic cannonfests. Applying heat isn't great, and I'd be happy if they removed heat applying weapons, but without heat on vehicles, suddenly standard engine is just as effective as advanced coolant in combat. And we all know how nasty advanced coolant standard tanks can be.
You don't need heat to balance. There is plenty of other ways to balance engines. Speed, weight, horsepower exetera. You could even make it so you need something other than standard for mediums and heavies. Weapons have cycle rates and weights to prevent you from spamming them. Go back to off topic where you belong.
A world without heat ;P Yea I'd appreciate it too. I wouldn't care if weapons have to be made slower (like real-ish) tank cannons (where you have to aim) to cap the damage done. But whole heat idea runs deep. In mechwarrior games it is mainly used to prevent constant auto fire from projectile weapons or neverending laser weapon fire. But in mechwarrior you had the possibility to add heat sinks to your setup at the cost of weapons/speed. In empires you just have 1 or 2 engines to choose (as you have to research them) which often enough results in you being stuck with bio diesel. Completely ruins the gameflow for me.
Heat to target is much worse than just the normal heat you get from firing. The fact everything that can damage a tank gives it heat, really isn't the best thing for gameplay
The nuke problem wouldn't be such a big one, when you couldn't fire the nuke if you don't have enough heat free to fire it. Example: I'm at 99 heat, nuke costs 50 heat. Now I should be 149 heat, but I'm still at 100. How It should be: I'm at 50 heat, I can fire the next missle. If I would be above 50 heat, the game shouldn't react to my fire command. Now Nukes wouldnt be a problem in small groups anymore. Because with a normal tank, I can keep the nuke tank above 50 heat, it can't do any damage, it can only do damage if its protected by teammates. And thats how a nuke should be: A support weapon: 1 tank gets it, the rest has normal weapon layouts.
Which can be done via cycle time or if you want a burst fire type weapon reload times. I could see maybe certain weapons having their own heat bar(fills up red in the reloading screen).
Relying on rate of fire instead of heat takes away the ability to burst, f.e. You get around the corner, fire 2 salvos of missiles and get the hell out. Short tank wars are intensive because You can fire fast. Long tank wars are slower, because everyone needs to take care about his heat bar. This gives a chance for more tanks to arrive and We have a tank battle. So if We remove heat We can either set a relatively high RoF or a relatively low RoF (relatively to average RoF in 2.1). If We set it to relatively low, than the regenerative tanks will be indestructible. Ok so We nerf the regen. Still it's thamn slow, people will get off the tank and fix it while the enemy is shooting at it. 1 vs 1 tank will be boring. If, on the other hand, We set RoF to relatively high, the big epic tank battles will become a history, because tank life in the battle will be shorter than it was in 2.1. My point is that heat is not as badly complicated and evil as You say. In DoD You also have heat on MG42 to prevent from constant fire but to give You a high RoF weapon. Someone says "baaa, but if You overheat Your tank You can't move!". Okay, this could be a subject of change. (but I don't think it should be touched). Someone else says "baaa, the current nuke settings are BAD AND EVIL". Yes they are, that's why We will try to balance it. One weapon's bad settings (or a bug) is not the reason to remove the heat in all vehicles.
my two cents: - remove nuke heat to target (and major heat to self) make it entirely dmg based - change plasma (mg and cannon) to do major damage to only armor (no hull dmg) - change bio (mg and cannon) to do major damage to hull but not armor. - give tanks and possibly apc's more hull strength so they aren't paperweights once all armor is down - reflect upon crazy ideas.
