EDIT BY REEF: I created a new thread for this discussion, branching from this thread. I dont know what the dev team really thinks or does and maybee Im totaly wrong with my oppinion but it feels like that not every dev trys to accomplish the same goals. In my oppinion there are two extrems, fast gameplay with the importance of the individual skill or slow gameplay and more teamwork. The devs try to make it slower and more team orientated but I dont think they try to do that to the same extend. I mean for example the nerfed guns indirect buff the sticky nade cause now you can run to a tank and no infantry can kill you bevor you reach your target. I think, to be honest, the whole rebalance lacks something like a masterplan.
You're right, it does. The masterplan is to be decided completely when 2.2 is out, but I felt that at least balancing out the weapons was a good idea to have in 2.2 already, because otherwise the change of pace would come as a gigantic shock for the (by then hopefully larger) playerbase. I don't see what the issue is with tanks, though, Drag was testing out some scripts lately and tanks seemed fine tbh
Beerdude: what Mayama is trying to say, is that the average damage-per-second of infantry is lower than it was in 2.1, and that results in increasing the average effective range of the rifleman-with-a-stickynade. If it's harder to kill infantry by using infantry now and it affects vehicles. As We haven't made (or thought about) any changes to vehicle scripts/code to tweak it for the new infantry reality. Mayama's point is good, noone from the devs looked on this like that before. Perhaps more decision-prototypes should be thrown at the testers to see if they jump out with something like that. Reducing average DPS of infantry is good. Infantry combat is diffrent now and it's better. It makes it so You often fun up to the front and You don't only see Your teammates bodies. They are still there, fighting. Sometimes someone dies, but now the front actually exists between two lines of soldiers. In 2.12 it Was between two lines of bodies. Teamplay is better among the alive. So. Does anyone have an idea of how to tweak the vehicles (or stickynades/mortar/everything that hits vehicles) according to the new infantry reality (lower DPS)?
The feature on Trac about 3 different damage values for infantry, vehicles and buildings sound like a good start. And I think it's a good thing that infantry get a better chance against vehicles. Last time I checked, everyone was going apeshit that infantry became useless once vehicles entered the round :p
But what would We do? Lower the damage to make the infantry live on the front longer, or would We rather increase the damage to make it so vehicles better protect themselves from the infantry, as friendly infantry doesn't kill it as effectively as before?
You can always put a mg/cg on your tank but than you have to live with less armor. Might be a good thing cause it makes tank drivers think if they want be secure against infantry or stand longer against enemy tanks. In 2.12 I never put a mg or cg on my tank cause it is rather useless especial if you have HE
This is all very theoretical. I propose we get infantry balancing and tank vs tank weapon balancing in (and remove the goddamned 3x Std MG) in 2.2. and then see how the gameplay has changed. Playtests will also help us define any issues.
How about sticky nades do the damage of scout sticky stuns and remove damage from stuns, then make improved detonaters amp the damage up to what it is currently? Seems like a band aid on the problem until a full blown solution can be put into place
Stick stuns should be buffed in damage imo. That way if a scout gets one sticky stun, he can get a few more on and finish the tank.
Exactly. I would love infantry to stand a chance against meds and heavies. If a heavy gets destroyed it is because he gets destroyed by another tank, or that the driver is a noob and rushes inside a huge base thinking he will survive cause it worked out well the previous 10 times. Vehicle tactics are being ignored, cause they are good enough solo against big groups of people. Out of the 6 people you face with your heavy, of the 20 soldiers that the enemy team has, perhaps 2 manage the hit you a few times (2 grenadiers for example). Your heavy weapons take them all down in seconds. If you do take a decent amount of damage you just retreat and repair. Having seen the super heavy tank model which should be so much stronger still, i can only welcome better anti-vehicle weapons.
I know that its not really a loved suggestion but i really like the idea that heavy turrets (the more slots used the heavier) turn slower
Seems a bit late now tbh for 2.2. Imo we should leave all weapons as they are and just release 2.2 as the orange box updated version with bugs fixed and the APC research upgrade. After it's released the devs can have a proper sit down and discuss where they really want to take this mod, and where they intend Empires to be in the next version. There's been too much faffing about already.
I have to be at the playtest first, since i haven't played with vehicles using the newest scripts in a serious way yet. I have no problem with the new infantry weapons settings being used for 2.2. I see no problems with them. Then again i haven't played with (unbugged) burst etc, so tomorrow's playtest will learn me most i need to know. I hope.
My suggestion is make sticky nades do a base damage of 200. An upgrade by commander would increase the damage by 100 points. This will allow infantry maps to use weak or stronger sticky nades based on the map.
prolly the best, most realistic change (albeit the most work involved) to balance it would be to implement damage specific zones on vehicles. ie: You can RPG or sticky stun the tracks of a vehicle twice and severely hamper its movement, OR focus on the turret/cannon and disable some of its weapons. This would be godly and add a serious usefulness to all infantry regardless of the stage of the game. It could still be balanced fairly easily but adjusting armor for vehicles and the amount of plate slots available. One could even go as far to alter an existing armor type or add a new one focused on repelling infantry damage (rpg, mortar and stickies). Idk, what you'd call said armor but it would allow drivers to select something more map appropriate for their tank.
Who will code it though? Currently, side front and rear plates are all calculated by ANGLE. Adding specific regions... That's a lot of coding and modeller work
