I want to grenadier class to be fun again. Oh and the question shouldnt be "how should it be balanced" it should be "which goal should the balance archive" like which playstyle the balance supports, atm its rush one tech tree and get a carbine if you want to kill stuff = boring.
Dizzy, Beerdude has some OTHER scripts that I made back in September that don't use Discrete Values. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1034763/Pub...ster's_infantry_scripts_bugfix_26_10_2009.zip Just infantry. I also think I might edit the infantry resists to buff mortar as well. Not sure. I'm either going to set every classes's mortar resist to 0.16 (101 damage on direct hit) or make gren 0.17 so he can just survive. Depends on how the poll in general discussion comes out, as well as discussion surrounding it. It'd be nice if Dubee could give me his opinion without the usual "MAKE MORTAR KILL EVERYTHING". I'd hold his above the rest. These ones ARE balanced, much more so than the stopgap ones I made using discrete values. They were heavily tested, the final revision being tested about 10 times to make 100% sure. I'll happily host another test with them as well if needed. With the proposed mortar change.
Here are my little list of balance suggestions: Bring back mediums: - Remove MKII - Increase max weight of medium tank to 380 (the difference between weight left AFV (320) and Medium (340) is too small. Heavy tank (470)) - Remove 2slot MG of heavy tank (this will give medium tanks more strategic importance, because it won't be just like a heavy tank with less armor and firepower. Also grenadiers will have an easier job to fight against heavy tanks) Fix homing ML: - Reduce the lock on time to maximum 3 seconds: (http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=11043) - Increase also the damage/second: (http://forums.empiresmod.com/showpost.php?p=254870&postcount=33) Add Bio Cannon: - http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=11225 (So that BE can also start with Bio Tree) Remove Plasma Cannon: Plasma will be alway useless or overpowered. And gameplay where the enemy can't move or shoot back will be always lame. Same for plasma MG. Supporting plasma MG have never worked. Make Bio MG more usefull: - More but shorter Bio damage (Vehicle/Player Bio Damage 20 (was 4)) (Vehicle/Player Bio Time 5 (was 20)) - or the other way (act more like DU) (Damage 7 (was 5)) (Clip Size 100 (was 50)) For the armors and research I would prefer Trickster's scripts ScardyBob has done a nice comparision: http://forums.empiresmod.com/showpost.php?p=275489&postcount=2 Also for the vehicle weapons I would prefer Trickster's scripts.
Also, I'm going to say I pretty much agree with all those suggestions except Bio Cannon. I think in the current research tree, Bio Cannon is unnecessary as it can't really be differentiated from Bio ML that much. Not to say that Bio Cannon couldn't replace Bio ML. That could work. I think a big thing is that Upgraded and Advanced RPG need to be moved to Mechanical. I would say turrets as well, but I hate turrets so I'd prefer not. Or at least, I hate LV3/LV2 MGs. I don't mind the upscaling MLs.
Bio Cannon will only be needed if MKII stays in the game. More details for upgraded and advanced RPG (and some other gren stuff): http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=11854 Turrets are ok. But why is the RoF doubled for every LVL at MG turret and not also for ML turrets? Rate of fire ML LVL1 = 16 Rate of fire ML LVL2 = 12 Rate of fire ML LVL3 = 8 Rate of fire MG LVL1 = 0.14 Rate of fire MG LVL2 = 0.07 Rate of fire MG LVL3 = 0.035
I would also split up weapons within a single research item (i.e. no more Heavy Caliber Machine Gun research giving you DU and 50cal, you would have to research each separately).
Plasma cannon should set people on fire and do damage over time to vehicles, thus occupying the role of a damage over time cannon as a counterpart for bioml. Ranged cannon could perhaps be moved to mechanical to make physics less overpowered. NF heavies should get dual 3slot ML's, just like BE heavies with their dual 3slot cannons. Dual nukes, what more could you want? :D (keep in mind this would be an idiotically expensive and vulnerable combination, leaving you with next to no armour and overheating you all the time)
That is always a big buff for BE, getting arty and a cannon in one go. But I think any additions should stay as simple as possible for 2.25. Any extra should be done for 2.26.
I do have a set of workable scripts but they need to be tested again. Long story short, move tank combat from the point plank slug fest that we have now out to 3-5 times the range. The research tree gets rid of the 5 class research/"BE rush physics, NF has to open 3 trees or sux". Both sides have an equal opportunity to research, if you want better cannons, open the cannon tree and so on. Currently, the research tree is set up but not working due to a syntax error or 2 and the gui needs to be cleaned up a bit. If anyone is interested in a test/has questions, let me know and we can talk. http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=11524 Regardless of what scripts get used, tanks need to be able to aim down. See dead zone around BE AFVs that the LTs can sit in.
How do you know if the game is balanced or unbalanced? I mean, is it just gut feeling with the help of a few spreadsheets? If it is, when does the gut feeling starts to appear? Do we have to go through the 'natural selection' process where a lot of people play for a while and then start realizing what works and what not? Wouldn't be easier if we could track game statistics on what research has been done, kill ratio of the different weapons, which armor dies more often? Which research path leads to victory more often? I know some of the information is available but is not public and probably the game needs to improve the reporting capabilities for easier tracking. Then we make a balancing change, wait for 1 month to let it mature and the do small tweakings? Also: maps. I would love to make kill maps to see where people dies the most, and which faction wins which maps. This could help balancing the maps. There was some crude implementation in the forums some time ago but it was not usable.
dizzyone: If you or beerdude are using Tricksters scripts, then try to use only a "soft" version of them. This means that all values should be changed a little bit less, so that we don't do the same error like from 2.23 to 2.24 where superlights were overnerved.
Empires is fun when tanks are more like a gimmick for experienced players that can avoid to get hit. Every approach to make tanks superior to infantry resulted in boring gameplay and a bigger slippery slope, so the losing team has zero chance.
It wasn't shot down, it's a planned feature. The design document Krenzo wrote has a whole section on it.
