Official Scout Thread Mrk II

The scout DOES encourage teamwork.
As soon as someone plays scout, everyone else must teamwork harder.

 

Scout is alot more powerfull in a team.. as all classes are, no one bitches when a gren and a engineer team up, scout and a engineer can destroy a base pretty quick and stealthy if they know how. wanna dumb them down take there gun away and givem a combat knife lol

 

Like this less than the last one. Most of it's good, better and would fit in well, but some of this... it's laughable and game breaking.

So here's a thought on those mines. Gren mines go KABLAMO, so should do damage to tanks and inf. If you don't want them lethal to infantry, which I can understand, take the damage to 90 against inf. Scout mines go KAZAPO, so should kill inf (make it really manly, 250 damage with no splash) but only do heat to tanks. drop 8 mines, tank drives over it, sticky roflmen sticky, teamwork is achieved.

 

anti tank mines should not explode when stepped on by people, if you are gonna seperate them then make it like i just said, not a neglectable damage when stepping on the wrong mine

 

Dude, calm down, its a discussion if you want to critizice an idea, then do it properly, not just OMFGWTFBBQ, thats not friendly and makes no sense since you can vote, and suggest better ideas, in the SAME threat!!!! Unbelivable easy, isnt it? Greets Kane

 

I presume neglectable means negligible, in which case 90 damage that is not. Other than 1 hit killing other scouts, it makes people vulnerable to falling, pistols and the mine sitting right next to the one you just stepped on. Heat mines have been suggested often before, generally people were liek 'this will just be a fail version of the mine', ofc add the anti-infantry, including anti-dig-in-health-upgrade-roflmen and you have something more versatile.

'Dude, calm down, its a discussion if you want to critizice an idea, then do it properly, not just OMFGWTFBBQ, thats not friendly and makes no sense since you can vote, and suggest better ideas, in the SAME threat!!!! Unbelivable easy, isnt it?'

I did at the end of my post though

 

Make scout a mobile Radar/Camera. Automaticly detects and marks on the minimap the enemies that are close enough to him.
No deployables needed.

 

This idea was frowned upon for making the camera worthless.

Also, ofcourse infantry would not set off armor mines and vice versa. Whats the problem with this sugestion? For a real mine to hurt a tank it has a great deal of explosives and a weight sensor. If, for some reason, an infantry did set it off he would vaporize and everyone around him. Anti- personel mines, on the other hand, have so little explosive force that tanks, and most vehicals, are not harmed at all.

This isnt a problem in BF2, or most other Vehical heavy games.

The Broken Arrow skill has been removed.

 

I would also like to note that skills or powers that require simply holding out the binoculars for them to work will not be very fun to do for that player, so he probably wont do it. This is a shame, as the proposed powers (radar / radar jammer) are very teamwork-enhancing items. I would rather have it that these powers are "innate" (well, the radar one, the other one still requires that skill), so that you don't need to do anything for the power to work.

 

Done, but I chose what I put down carefully and thoughtfully.

Should I just re-post mine every time you make a new thread?

Also, when are you going to address my concerns as to how this is going to be developed? I'm pretty much staying out of this until you do.

Clarification needed: What exactly are your specific concerns?
How similar can we stay?
The model, the animations, the damage, the intent, the current execution?

Does a gun with the scout rifle model, the pistol 1 stats and a scope with thermal sensors count?
Does the binocs replaced with the scout rifle model count?
Does sabotage that does nothing but damage count?
Does a mortar that only sabotages when it hits things count?
Does a mid range sabotaging weapon with the scoutrifle model that can be used alone, but is really inffective when alone count?

 

2.5 will have changes that make testing Scout changes very easy. Concern addressed.

Your plan consists mainly of load out changes that I didn't like. If I did, they would have been incorperated into this mark two sugestion.

No, no scoped rifle for the scout, not the model, nothing like it. No building sabotage at all.

 

Why no building sabotage? Without a reason to close on enemies the shotgun will not be very useful. If timed explosives are supposed to replace the sabotage role then they will either have to be quite weak or there will still be instances of bases disappearing, only this time the warning period will be much shorter. Exactly what warning will people have when these timed explosives are placed and will they be disarm able?

This would not make the camera worthless, if you increased camera build time and decreased it radius and left it with the engineer then the engineer can use his turret, walls and camera to make defensive positions but for offence you would want a scout to locate the enemies as they would be outside camera range. Building a closer camera would take too much time and charge for it to be done in situations where there was danger and a need of revives.

 

Apart from that I'd like to spill in a few ideas for a new scout sabotage device that may be used for buildings:

• May be limited like turrets, for example only 2 can be used at a time.
• Will not damage buildings.
• Will be a physical small prop that will be attached to a building
• Needs to be destroyed by anyone (as soon found)
• Can not be placed/used in unfair/non accessable areas (such as below the building, or ontop) - it may use predifined areas only (maybe 8-10 per building that can be checked manually)

So as for the effects on the buildings, one of these will be RANDOMLY choosen. They may only start a few seconds after the sapper has been placed and all in all they are not THAT easy to detect and may be mistaken...

Vehicle Factory & Repairpad:

Produced / "Repaired" vehicles:

• No effect
• Take slow damage over time
• Recover heat very slowly
• Generate a lot more heat when shooting
• Slower then their counter parts
• Have malfunctioning/jamming weapons (weapons stop shooting sometimes or a .50 cal magazine may have to be reloaded after a few fired shots)
• Have malfunction armor and take a lot more damage from enemy projectiles

However, if you drive the vehcile on a non-sabotaged reppad and repair it fully it will be funtioning normal again.

Radar:

Random effect of those

• Minidisplay displays own vehicles/soilders wrongly
• Minidisplay doesn't show enemy vehicles
• Minidisplay shows them in wrong places (i.e. own bases)
• Research takes longer

Barracks:

As for each player spawning one of these effects will be applied.
(Can not be removed unless the player switches class in a WORKING barracks or armory, effects will not change upon class change (to same class) in a broken rax)

• No effect
• Malfunctioning body armor - takes more damage from projectiles
• Malfunctioning weapon - weapon does less damage or jams/needs to reloaded in uncomming places
• Malfunctioning grenades/mines - may explode earlier/randomly or not at all
• Respawning may take longer for that particular player in the particular barracks
• Missing ammo - some clips are mysteriously lost

Armory:

As for players switching class in an armory same effects as for barracks apply.
In addition this may happen to the armory:

• Ammo can't be picked up out of the crates
• Health can't be picked up out of the crates

Turrets:

• No effect
• May start shooting the orignal team
• Stop functioning completly
• Explode after a while
• Start shooting everything that comes near, no matter the team

Cameras/Mini-Radars:
Like the big radar, except for the research thing.

 

Except the scripts touch near jackshit on the classes, so really, in 2.25, no-one is going to be able to show something else as we can't do anything, and thus there will be no competition or feedback, and shit won't go well. "You can try your ideas in 2.25" isn't an excuse for not at the very least explaining why you don't like the ideas, considering we CAN'T try our ideas in 2.25.

 

Trickster: as our cool dev blog says, the skill system is being reimplemented so it should be easier to change the skills. It will still require coder's support, but it will be much easier to do.

My voice in the scout case? Too much/too big changes should not be done in one step. I think We should:
1. Agree on 1-2 small changes that will make the game a bit better
2. Code it
3. Go to step 1

 

I liked the changes to some extent, but a lot will need to be removed because they'll be shown to be overpowered. Overall, the idea is in the direction I would like to go, but I gel with only about 60-70% of it.

I would probably like building saboutage replaced by explosives, yes. However, you can always leave the effect of saboutage on buildings, but remove the health hit - i.e. actually saboutage it. You could remove the smoke etc, and have an icon above the health bar to denote the building is saboutaged. Anyway, i'm off the point, this is not a suggestion post.

Please do not reduce or buff any classes health though. It affects more than you know!

Flasche's suggestion was pretty good too, although it isn't as good, and removes some of the backbone of Empires (repair has to be in there!).

You could give it a melee attack, if that's a problem. Or you could implement a 'holster weapon' function that allows you to activate and put away a device (or just imply that everytime someone puts away their weapon, they activate the device) leaving you with no weapon but a bare-fist melee attack.

 

Add- buildings in range of flare detection take 25% more damage

 

why? how will people even know it does that?

the perfect game does not need a manual to explain basic game effects and weapons

 

Overall it sounds like fun. I think the important changes are the additional weapons and firepower, basically turning the scout into a sneaky close range combat class with cameras and parasite. Comm targets make some of the recon stuff redundant though.

We really need a better idea of how this would work. Can people defuse them? Do they pack the punch of a 9 mine or just a couple seismics?. How much firepower overall is the scout going to be able to carry with ammo upgrade? Do they hurt tanks if you say, sneak one next to a parked APC? It could be fun and useful, scout needs some kind of firepower to make people want to play it.

Pretty cool but mines and grens don't really need the nerf. Lets give it some kind of unique effect so we don't have to steal powers from the already neglected gren. Make it detonate the enemies ammoz? Make it not fatal but relatively big splash? Fatal bio effect? I don't know. But anyway something like this would be nice. Scout def needs something more then just a cool gun and magic binoculars.

Already implemented: Comm targets and radars and cameras and binoculars and the "ive spotted a ___" menu and that scanner sweep ability (does the scout still have that?).

Already implemented: Smoke and empties way better flames.

Already implemented: Different models for different classes (for BE only ) and different weapon loadouts. I guess seeing enemy health and names would be cool but you or the teammates you warn are just going to shoot them anyway, regardless of if they have 10 or 100 health.

Already implemented: Comm targets and Radars and I guess that scanner sweep squad ability too. Why not just detonate the old camera and drop another one and then go fight?

Good change. Everyone more or less agrees the scout should be some kind of information or 'scouting' class and for that the scout is going to need cameradars.

Skulk's parasite basically. Could be a cool and useful ability, although you can just spot buildings anyway. In any case care would have to be taken to prevent our hidden proned sniper scouts from becoming hidden proned binocular scouts that just spot things people are already fighting and then get points for it.

Epic idea. I sortof feel bad for turrets though. A lone hidden scout making a lvl 3 turret farm destroy itself and turn on its owners is a pretty huge nerf for something that is already countered by an engi with a wall and seismics (and anything that has tracks or wheels and just about anything else too).

Already implemented: Multiple Sticky Stuns. Also, having a vehicle just sit there overheated while a scout just sits there overheating it would be all around boring. What about some % direct hull damage or status effects or something.

Epic idea.

Its a cool ability. It would force the enemy comm to give 'attack this location' orders or describe where they were over voice, which would be a pain in the ass. I'm not sure if that's good or bad.

So a shotgun that costs a skill and 100% stamina? Can you do this and remain cloaked or something?

Costs a scout and a skill to do something a gren with a comm target and arty feedback could do. Certainly would be handy for long range mortar/artying but not worth the waste of a player that could just spot it or be a gren and go shoot the thing in the first place.

Good idea. Of course a dead person with a scout standing on their body probly isn't going to be revived anyway because if you leave them alone you might ambush the rev engi too. Maybe make it work at a short distance if you have Line of Sight?