Upgrade Turrets Upon Research Completion

So I thought this would have already been posted numerous times, but after several searches with different keywords and combinations, I decided to post it.

Turrets should upgrade when you finish the research to upgrade them. In any other RTS/game you can upgrade shit in 90% on the instances it will upgrade existing units. I also hate having to recycle my turrets and remake them re-spending the resources.

 

I think it should be a purchaseable turret upgrade though if you dont need to spend the time rebuilding them.

An "autoupgrade" feature will just make turtling even more attractive...

 

Those are great suggestions +1

 

I did just buy a turret upgrade, it cost 300 for lvl. 2s and 450 for lvl. 3s.

Besides, turtling is a valid strategy in any RTS, I do it all the time in AoEIII.

 

It's not a valid strategy in Empires. It can only delay things. (Empires isn't like every other RTS)

 

then why include turrets ? why can we research lvl 3 ? wtf does everyone have against encouraging turtling ? walls encourage it , everything encourage it. So saying that it encourage turtling is definitly DEFINITLY not something to use to say it's not a good idea.

I do not want to see anymore "it encourage turtling" this is just a stupid answer that you post when you dont have time to make a constructive one or when you dont like what the guy is suggesting but u dont know why u dont like it.
= It's stupid

 

This(being turrets upgradeable) wouldn't cause people to turtle more or less. People turtle regardless, and when they lose in empires, they either wisen up or get seldom voted in again.

 

Never seen offensive turrets? :D
Besides, researching lvl 2 turrets helps against ninjas and loose tanks.

 

Ya I know turrets can be offensive that's not the point , the point is they encourage turtling we should remove them , the walls also , the armories also , oh and the barrack they make turtling easier...........

 

Turtleing is a legitimate strategy, just a frequently poorly executed one that almost never results in victory.

 

Why use turrets for turtling they belong on the front lines to suppress enemy tanks and infantry.

 

as long as you dont turtle with only 1/6 or so refinery nodes in controle it is a valid strategy


if you turtle with like half or 2/5 of the refineries of the map in your possession you might win with the fact that the enemy is using quite a lot of resources on busting your shell and when the tanks stop rolling in the turtle comes out of his shell and rushes

its a valid but hard strategy requiring lots and lots of coordination and most of the times is poorly applied

 

I would only see this idea implemented if the engineer still had to run up and build the turret. Like, the turret drops down to 1/10th HP, but is still a lvl 1, and then an engineer must upgrade them to get it to the enxt level, a lot like engineer turret upgrading. Or just make them upgradable by an engineer.

No to the auto upgrade.

 

Then that just fucks up your whole defence, making the turrets 1 hit kills and useless

 

We had a noob Commander on emp_isle, if not mistaken, and after he raged (I did not even flame him, tried to help him best I could, but commanding is stressful I suppose) I reluctantly took over as Comm, took the Comm Vehicle up the hill and immediately turtled. My plan was (since we had no chance of winning on resources and the noob Commander wasted too much time getting paper heavies, which we could obviously not afford with some 2 resource nodes) to turtle on the hill depleting their tickets until they became smart enough to use reflective armor and nukes/rails.

We came really close to winning, it was like 0 to 10 tickets at the end. I could not get my team to squad revive well enough. Result:

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/natural/5688cf3cfa339343ec27dbae3137fd50702dbdda.png

http://screenshot.xfire.com/screenshot/natural/1358f8b577bfe391b1ffaf6efb21e4990dc96b24.png

Response to the strike through: Wow really? We actually depleted their tickets? I did not remember that. I remember sending a few people to find their CV to kill him when we went SD or rather if we went SD. That would have made for an epic win.

We actually started to recap the territory west of our main, built a barracks there and everything, but by then it was too late to either build refineries that would actually help or to make an offensive.

If I did not have to recycle my turrets, rebuild them, and yell at people to build them, we might have won.

That is because Empires is not a game where turtling has a high probability or even a medium probability of success. This probably mainly attributes to the turret/wall limits along with how weak turrets and walls get when the enemy team gains better weapons and armor.

It also is not a strategy meant to win by winning with attacks, it is meant for your team to win whilst the other team loses resources, tickets, etc., whichever may be the case.

This is no different than how it is now. Upon researching level 2s it would essentially disable all commander turrets thus resulting in a 15 second timeframe for the enemy to rush your base. Simply put, yes, the engineers have to upgrade every turret by building their turret, but the Commander should not have to. The Commander just spent 750 resources and 3 1/2 minutes going to lvl 3s, is that not enough, but on top of that you want them rebuilt?

That is why no one researches level 3s, they are too time consuming and resource consuming, and because no auto-upgrade exists, no one goes to lvl 3.

 

That is true in most cases but mainly only the loosing team doesnt bother to research lvl 3's and rebuild event if it could save them, this "auto-upgrade" would make defences stronger and make games harder/longer (in a good way)
and it would reward the commanders who dont research nuke paper heavys and play in a defensive play-style.

I am all for this "auto-upgrade".

 

I'm all against it.



making them upgradable by the engineer is the only option to do this. Otherwise, hell no.

Level 3 research will not stop you from losing a losing game, nor will it help you win a winning game. First, there are not enough turrets allowed to do this. Second, there are very very very very very very very few coms that are able to design their defenses with enough fore sight to make this work.

Third, if a com makes a defense that he intends to later upgrade, his early defense will be greatly flawed until it is upgraded.

last, turrets don't do shit to stop tanks. once you have armor, turrets are just a minor nuisance, and anyone can bypass them either by driving straight through and repairing or getting armor upgrade and ignoring them completely. Turrets may help, but they won't stop a heavy when you only have lights.

also, any competent commander would get artillery as soon as turret spam starts, or nukes. unless they have heavies that can ignore them and rape your tanks all at the same time.

The only useful way to use turrets in a way besides turtling is to put them down so that they target refinery points when placed. With a group of turrets locked on to a refinery point that is either in enemy territory, or that you cannot control completely, it then forces the enemy to put effort into taking out those turrets. Level 3 turrets are only very effect in the available numbers to take out plain armor tanks. Most other tanks can either out run the ML's or avoid them with their engine, or can tank the turrets with their armor.

In the end, if you place a signifcant amount of turrets before you get level 3's, and you planned on getting level 3's, you are a moron.

I don't know how much commanding experience you have, but if you spend 3 1/2 minutes and 750 res upgrading turrets and your tanks are losing a battle all this time, you are griefing.

If you placed turtling turrets before you actually upgraded turrets with research you are wasting team res.

There is no such thing as a defensive play style.

You can play a hold play style where you capture a certain area, and hold a defensive position in that area, but if you don't start working on the next offensive strike, the enemy will, and they will push back. I'm sorry if you can't comprehend that turrets can't solve any problems or that it takes a very skilled player to use them to their full potential, and it takes a mildly competent engineer to foil that commander by placing a wall about player height, but that is the sad truth. If you rely on turrets ever at all, you failed.

If you are playing "Defensively", that means you have lost.

Empires is an offensive game. You start off with nothing. Designing a system to help people sit on their asses and do nothing but hold 1 refinery longer doesn't help the game. It only prolongs it until the enemy gets artillery or nukes.

This prevents paper nukes? bullshit. Paper nukes are the result of effing morons spamming turrets across the map. Nukes break turtle shells, that's what they are designed to do, If you turtle to stop the enemy from getting a weapon that is designed to kill turtles, you are a moron.

 

i as a commander play "defensive" and i win most the time, i place lvl 2 turrets around my base and near key points in the map such as passage ways trough hills and so on.
The tanks in my team are allways from the beginning of the game untill late game medium tanks, are able to fight of even heavy tanks and take out the enemy base.

I never said that i would have only one ressource node the whole game when playing defensive, you obviously dont know the meaning of "defensive" game play i for example play "agressive-defensive" but of course there are commanders you described which play as "extremly passive-defensive" with only one resource node and walls placed around their base and i have to agree that such a playstyle is almost allways going to fail.

A turret upgrade which needs engineers to complete it is really not needed since its almost the same as having to recycle the turrets and rebuild them both cases need engineers which terminates imo the main purpose of the "auto-upgrade".

 

But you are taking it in only a certain context. You are only thinking of lvl 3s in the context of stopping a player from losing a losing game, or just to turtle. First, you could increase the turret limit, though latency would become a factor. Second, not many Comms can do a lot many of things, a lot of noob Comms do not know how to research, but do we stop people from researching?

You just proved my point. Why should Commanders build lvl 1s if they know they will have to rebuild them later? There is no point.

Turrets can be used offensively as well, to help build your frontlines, or used to defend other things such as refineries. Some turrets is better than no turrets in a base.

Once again, no argument necessary, you just proved that lvl 3 turrets should auto-upgrade.

Team was already griefed, it was too late to either A) cap refineries or B) get any good research, as I said. We barely had any tanks the entire game because of low res. I did my best to win by either depleting their tickets (succeeded in that) or killing their Comm in sudden death. I did not want to Comm, but I would say I lasted my team a hella longer than we would have if I had not Commed.

And there is such thing as defensive play in Empires, you have probably done it many times. Cap more than 51% of the refineries on the map, and defend them. If you can take more refineries you do, if you cannot then you cannot. You hold the refineries until you gain superior research and then you proceed to assault. You place turrets at the refineries to either A) defend the refineries if the enemy cannot defeat them or B) as a distraction.

Wow, I only read through your post a section at a time, and I end up reposting what you say in the next section, dammit.

Instead or replying and reposting exactly what you said, I would say we agree. We agree on almost all the points turrets should be used for, but you said turrets should not auto-upgrade only because I gave an example of turtling. Here, let me give you an example of needing turrets on... frozen summit, I think is the map I have in my head:

I put two turrets around every refinery in frozen summit, four in important areas. The enemies go terrorist on my refineries, do not care to build their own, just destroy as much as they can. I go lvl 2s to better protect my refineries and kill infantry from a distance. Your idea: all my turrets are now disabled, my refineries will get raped. Current dilemma: I have lvl 2 but I have to be arsed to get people out to the refineries to rebuild them. This takes an extreme amount of team cohesion, maybe even more so than turtling.

So instead of thinking of this in such a small, condensed way, look at it in all aspects, in every use of the turret.

 

Empries RTS economic model is like Supreme commander Forges Aliance, CoH, Dawn of war 2. Now you try to turtle in those games in multiplayer and report back to me how you did...