Whats really wrong with 2.2?

Discussion in 'General' started by Jessiah, Dec 14, 2008.

  1. Jessiah

    Jessiah Member

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    [rant]
    From what I have read on the forums, people don't like it mainly because INFANTRY IS FINALLY FUCKING BALANCED. Honestly people, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU WHEN YOU CALL THIS MOD SHIT BECAUSE ITS NOW BALANCED? Just use teamwork, different classes together, and your fine. Rifles rape at range, like they're supposed to. SMG's rape up close, but suck at range, LIKE THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO. Not entirely sure, but the mowtar seems to be toned down, and the RPG up, SO THEY FIT THEIR GOD DAMN ROLES.

    It seems like everyone is being a bitchy girl because THEIR FAVORITE WEAPON ISNT RAPE CANNON ANYMORE...

    Learn the new balance, learn to work as a team, and don't bitch until you have a real god damn point.
    [/rant]
     
  2. Omneh

    Omneh Member

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    It may be balanced, but...

    ITS NOT FUN.

    And fun is 99% of a successful game.
     
  3. Jessiah

    Jessiah Member

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    I have heard no complaints from new players, only the old ones. Its pretty damn obvious that you guys just dont like change. You miss the rape.
     
  4. Vessboy

    Vessboy Member

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    Omni I love your mapping. However I greatly disagree with your current statements. 2.2 now features greater larger battles with more players in more intense situations without a complete throw due to a single player than ever before. Matches are epic and balanced. I see a lot of people displeased with the changes that affect them on personal level. However for the game itself for the epic maps themselves this is superior than anything else we've ever had. Just spent some time on the next classic map you play and look at the mini map. Look at the well defined points of interest, the places where every one is fighting. See how they'd moves back and forth with the tides of war. I once saw a game where my team force an enemy into 1/4 of the map and a clever rush of tanks brought them not to all successful win due to attacking the commander but to equal terms with us, making the game last longer and avoiding a cruel slaughter. The irony and this is that it was on slaughtered. Just shoot and hide, heal and retreat, live and die. Because now the war has tides, And you cannot stop a tide.
     
  5. Jessiah

    Jessiah Member

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    I fully agree with Vess. In 2.12, there were no tides. Only crushing waves. Once one team reached that point, nothing could stop them, except a very skilled ninja. Now, the war has tides and eddies, that flow back and forth. One moment on team is on the advance, the next they are getting butt hurt and defending, then they push again, and perhaps break the enemy, or maybe the enemy breaks them.
     
  6. arklansman

    arklansman Member

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    <filler>
     
  7. Dawgas

    Dawgas Banned

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    duh, the new ones just started playing empires with 2.2
     
  8. Jessiah

    Jessiah Member

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    Yes, and the balance is fine to them. Its only the old players that bitch, and it seems thats because they dont like god damn balance. They beg for it for ages, then they give the devs the finger when its actually implemented well.
     
  9. Lockhart

    Lockhart Member

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    Of course new players don't complain. They haven't had the pleasure of playing the old version...

    Infantry combat Isn't fun anymore and I agree. When once I could shoot someone in the face, now I do 5 times with a so called "GUN" and they just zoom backwards like they're getting hit with bouts of compressed air. Why the heck would bullets not kill anyone? The only guns that can still kill with a headshot still are the NF heavy rifle and BE 1st primary weapon. Not to mention mortars being insanely godly. Any decent player with a mortar and an ammo crate (Common) can hold off any so called "tide" of players easily because they pretty much instantly kill everything.

    Don't even want to say much about scouts... increased firing rate and non-lethal ranged rifle causing basically massive air compression bursts again.

    Just balance the guns out to what they used to be and the game would be great with the new tech tree and fixes. I know it might take a while to perfect but at least make infantry be able to kill other infantry when firing directly at their head. Or chest for that matter. I don't want to spend a clip and a half of precious ammo on one guy because they're getting healed while I shoot them with bullets traveling at high speeds impacting their flesh...
     
  10. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    QTF

    Also, how can new players bitch if they didnt know what it was in ,say, 2.0??

    Its like having 2 guys

    1 dude is homeless
    1 dude is rich and lives in a big , high-standart apartment

    Somehow ,i dont give a fuck why, the end up living door to door in a poor-standarts apartment block

    Its quite obvious the homeless will say FUCKING AWESOME
    While the guy that used to live in high standarts will say FUCKING BULLSHIT

    Edit:

    Vess , if you dont know : there were MANY such games in 2.12
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2008
  11. Jessiah

    Jessiah Member

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    Theres a difference between calling Empires a straight up bad game, which many people are doing, and saying 2.12 was better. If you pay attention, you see this thread is about the former.
     
  12. Satanchild666

    Satanchild666 Banned

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    It were the old players who kept argueing about the game was unbalanced. Now it is Balanced and they dislike it... pff
     
  13. dizzyone

    dizzyone I've been drinking, heavily

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    The infantry weapons are the number 1 playtested element of 2.2, while it's been fully put to the test at release, I think that some people just cba to criticize prior to release.

    It doesn't matter whos right and wrong, most of this arguing could have achieved a lot more during playtesting. This is not directed to anyone, I'm just seeing a couple of testers discussing it now that I haven't heard during testing. Either those tests were all inconclusive, or some people have been sleeping for quite some time.
     
  14. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Yeah I do.

    I miss being powerful, now all the guns feel like pea shooters, and it's not a pleasant feeling.

    Until that goes away I'm going to find 2.2 less fun than 2.1, I understand that this is more balanced but that doesn't stop it being less fun. I understand that this is probably more fun for new players than 2.1 would have been, but that also does nothing to stop it being less fun. Logically I expect it was a good idea to make the changes, but that doesn't stop it being less fun.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2008
  15. recon

    recon SM Support Dev

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    Quoted For Truth.

    The infantry weapons don't make sense anymore. An auto shotty in CS:S fires faster than a supposedly automatic weapon in Empires.

    What makes no sense to me is that in a mod where the QOG (Quality Of Game) suffers because most of the time the game required a lot of teamwork from a playerbase where many of the players don't know the meaning of the word, why would you want to require more teamwork?
     
  16. arklansman

    arklansman Member

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    Quoted for truthyness.
     
  17. Doctor Mexinugget

    Doctor Mexinugget Member

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    So basically, "We arnt skilled enough to win. Make the Dev team nerf the weapons so we can."

    I've been fighting in this game for years. I've seen my share of stalemate walled warfare, it didn't need the nerf.
     
  18. Zeke

    Zeke Banned

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    I was happy becomming a tester since it would be fun seing the new changes.

    When i realised the way infantry battles got slowed down into idle fights i first bitched like mad and whined about with my clan members and other testers i play games with...

    every single day i had the option to join specc and hear people discussing 2.2 being bad...

    One of the major things being discussed... the wepons sucking bigtime.

    Yes... thats what many testers thought when i was active and if that failed to reach ur ears... well then its about time to visit a doctor.

    You see... people cant downright say: OMFG DEVELOPERS WAKE THE FUCK UP BECOUSE THIS IS FUCKING THINGS UP AND TAKING AWAY THE FUN.

    that would lead in a termination of testing access and such.

    Yet thats what was being said while no devs were around.

    At first i figured due to the OB conversion the guns were imbalanced due to the rescripting etc...

    well... when i figured that u planned on keeping things the way it was i went 100% emo and stopped playing empires up to 2.2's release.

    (only reason i tried it at all was due to my clan members telling me to install it)

    I'm glad i tried it though... it wasnt fully as bad as it was earlier.
    I find great enjoyment in that everyone is bloody horrible as infantry and kills can be made all over the place.
    not to mention riflemans being extremely lethal against tanks nowdays.

    But the sad truth is that i dont find as much enjoyment as the past.

    reducing the killing potency by like 50% (if not more) makes the game so much... idly...

    camping with walls is the new way to win, if you dont you lose. (well except me going berzerk style and wiping out a complete defense line and taking out tanks as rifleman, but for average joe atleast.)

    I realise more teamwork is required... but the problem is that teamwork now = camp behind a wall with a revive engineer

    its.... dull.

    i find all wepons equally balanced except BECAR which has flaws in its design to be used effectively.
    (my favorite gun in another war game was a 3-shoot salvo wepon... yet that one was fun... this one is hideously boring and shitty.)

    HMG's are hardly usefull in a headon fight, due to the bullet physic thing which makes u fly backwards (fly as in bouncing AWAY from the ground... VERTICALLY!) by being hit from the front in a angle which actually hits u from "above"...
    yet they are proven to be rather effective if used after flanking the enemy.


    But do keep in mind... i did say balanced.
    Balanced is good in terms of being "fair".
    Yet, Balanced does not equal good.

    I find the wepons tremendously less fun than the past.
    in the past you needed to be alert in order to survive combat... now u can kill most people even if you were having a zip from a drink u held in one of your hands while being attacked.

    the personal performance affection to combat is reduced greatly from how i see it.

    The fact a headon fight vs a really bad person result in a bit of dmg due to low killing potency in wepons greatly bothers me...


    But one thing im happy about is that explosive grenades has become wastly more usefull.

    increasing the blast radius in 2.12 a tiny winy bit would have generated the same effect, but nvm that.

    People camp... a lot...
    Which makes tiny clusters of people, throw in 2 grenades there and u get atleast 1 kill.

    throwing in all ur nades into the openings of defensive areas and then picking up ur rifle and nail down the people getting healing behind the walls work perfectly :D

    it completely reverse the use of teamwork since i know all of them go off to hug the engineer ^_^


    Anyway in compact form i can say this:

    Fights are much more dull, BECAR needs a fix asap, the game is more about EVERYONE being a camping scout bitch nowdays.

    im not saying scouts in 2.12 is bad, with skill and low numbers they are great... yet the general newbie from css think its a awp and therefor all the hate towards them.
    along with them being whiny bitches when the scout pulls of a HS. (L2P is all i can say)

    Oh yea... the veichle lagg needs fixing since its hideous atm.


    id say... add another 15-20% wepon dmg on all rifles along with improving the RoF on BECAR by quite a bit... then everything is fine.



    So the game isnt broken due to 2.2 but it is less fun than the past in terms of infantry battle.

    ps. a lot of people q.q about mortars but thats since they havent learned to use the new guns yet (to the diffrense of the unchanged mortar)... so dont change anything in that perspective.


    oh and

    QTF
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2008
  19. Shinzon

    Shinzon Member

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    This all sounds like 2.1 release all over again, hell this was the case with each new version of Empires. People bitch and whine initialy, then they get used to the new things and come up with new ways to play...

    Personaly; I believe that each new version was a step in the right direction. Empires still has plenty of a learning curve without having "Niche Uberweapons" that you know work, and you use only that.

    Suck it up and play.
     
  20. Zeke

    Zeke Banned

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    i know how the wepons work and ended up with a 5 KDR in my first game after being inactive for 2 months...

    so dont go tell me i dont "know" how to use the wepons and develop new ways to do things, aight?

    im not saying everything is bad, but im pointing out the things that ARE bad.

    there is no reason what so ever for me to point out fixed bugs and good things, they have no importance since they are already fixed.

    When i post i try to somehow change things which i disliked, yet it seems like a big group of people go OMGSTFU AND PLAY FOR 2 MONTHS AND THEN ADD UR OPINION ON THINGS no matter what is being said...
    Please... dont do such things and read what is being said and feel free to say its wrong... But if its wrong then explain WHY its wrong.

    saying: "lol its all fine nuubcakes just l2p" (as ur post is sadly enough like)

    is just as stupid as saying: "OMG FIX EVERYTHING NOW SINCE EVERYTHING SUCK!"

    try to be more constructive.
     

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