We need inert skills for other classes.

The engineer is the only class after 40 that continues to get benefits from promoting. The scout's inert ability is not even noticeable, and the rifleman and grenadier don't even have one.

Rifleman: Every promotion after 40 gives 1 hp/2 secs

Grenadier: Every promotion after 40 gives 1 RPG/ 2 mortar/ 2 mine/ extra clip of ammo.

Scout: Every promotion after 40 gives stamina regeneration increase of 10%

 

I want a three barreled buckshot pistol for grenadiers at 40

 

I want dual wielding for riflemen at 40

 

a few sticks of C4 for the scout at 40

 

But think about that promotions will only make good players better. So I don't think that they need a buff.

 

it's not that they need a buff, it's more of a prize of point whoring.

 

akimbo pistols!

 

Akimbo machine-pistols would be hilarious. Complete lack of control. Watch as your shots fire behind you! I'd use it.

 

Okay, without the incentive of doing well, there isn't much reason to play the game other than to win. if nothing will change when you do better, what's the point of getting better?

having these level up buffs really does make the game somewhat more interesting, and gives you more reason to learn how to play better.

anyhow, the actual truth is that scout goes into hide mode faster with each rank up, just like how engineer gets more walls when you rank up.

Check the wiki, there are a couple of class level up bonuses, though the most apparent is the 2nd camera or turret for engy.

 

say yes for space nazis.

 

Honestly, dual shotty pistols would be so awsome. Engi gets 2 turrets why shouldn't rifleman get 2 hand cannons.

 

It's not about the point whoring...its about the balancing between the engineer and the other classes.

Also, the scout hide I tried, and theres barely any difference between promotions, if any at all. I did check the wiki.

 

It really is just about point whoring. The extra walls the engineer gets aren't what makes them more useful than other classes; it's a minor and extremely unimportant easter-egg thing in most situations. It is absolutely not comparable to a directly useful combat buff, which is what people seem to be asking for here.

TBH passive upgrades are a generally bad thing to focus on anyway. Skills are fun because they allow customization. Passive upgrades don't.

Skills are only tied to points to encourage new players to do things like build, revive, construct, etc, and are granted for kills only incidentally (because otherwise they might encourage people to do those other things to the exclusion of killing). They are not supposed to provide big meaningful rewards, and I think it's important to have a hard cap beyond which they stop providing benefits in order to ensure that they don't intrude much on the main game mechanics.

I don't think that having people grind themselves into super-soldiers who have significant advantages over anyone who logs in midway through a match is a good idea, either. All of the skills that exist now give minor advantages, and even someone who logs in midway through the game can just take one skill that helps in combat and fight evenly. If grinding to 100 points gives you an advantage in combat, that would break this, and make it impossible for people who log in late or whatever to fight on even ground.

If people really think it's a big concern that all classes be treated equally in this fashion, I would favor making the engineer and scout stop at 40 points, rather than giving bonuses to anyone else, and perhaps turning the engineer extra turret / sensor into a skill (or removing it entirely.)

Choosing skills and customizing your loadout is interesting. Passive bonuses are dull.

 

I agree with aquillion.

The passive bonuses they get hardly affect the game at all. If you can come up with skills that can fit the classes and hardly affect the game like the current two then maby... but, because they hardly matter its going to end up on the bottom of the todo list unless they receive fairly popular support.

 

If it was all about point whoreing, it wouldn't matter if it was innate or selectable skills.
No one is suggesting supersoldiers. The 2x turret and camera for engi is powerful, but in no way supersoldierish, and the walls are just a nice boost.
The scout innate one doesn't even get noticed even at 100 points and the engi one stops at 60. Standardization at 60 as a cap would make it simple but allow small progression past 40.


There's also some innate problems with having everything on skills though

The first being that they need to be of a significant effect. Because you're limited to 4 skills, taking something that's sub-par can be a big deal. This also means you're limited more as a whole, because you have to use up a slot to get that bonus.

The second being that there has to be a fixed amount. This means that you can't have meaningful progression. This also means that the amount has to be balanced as not to be too powerful early game. The ability to have something slowly progress to greater is a flexibility that research and innate allows.

Also, having innate upgrades means that you get a bonus no matter what. Skills do allow for more flexiblity on top of that, but a natural bonus is just nice. They shouldn't be defining, but they should be noticeable.

When I first saw this I actually spent like 10 minutes and came up with some rough ones off the top of my head. I should probably go find them...

 

I also agree with aquillion,

P.S.
my first reply was a joke :D

 

Again, my suggestions were just bullshit. Throw your own in if you disagree with mine.

Anyways, point whoring is already an issue whether we have these or not. As long as there are benefits to points which are already integrated into the game as skills and promotions, people will always have an incentive to point whore.

 

An overwhelming majority of the time, the most effective players have the highest scores.

'Point whoring' is not a problem beyond doing stupid shit to farm squad points (which is an entirely different issue).

 

Right, so I found my thrown together values I made.

Notes:
-The engi's values have been changed. Extra walls stop at 50, rather then 60 (making double walls at max, rather then +120%) and the extra turret and camera are at 50 to coincide with the walls.
-I couldn't really think of any other semi balanced final bonus for the rifleman, It could probably do with a replacement.
-Yes, a gren could 16mine a cv when he got to 50, but I think that its a good increase regardless.
-I would like to replace Defusal speed with something, mainly because it requires you have a specific skill in order for it to have an effect. Either that or have some form of innate defusal(no mine prot, just the ability to defuse(be careful)).

Code:

Engi	-	
Rank 1		Walls +20%		(12 walls)
Rank 2		Walls +20% (40%)	(14 walls)
Rank 3		walls +20% (60%)	(16 walls)
Rank 4		Walls +20% (80%) 	(18 walls)		 
Rank 5		Walls +20% (100%)	(20 walls) Turret + 100% (2x) Surveilance + 100% (2x)



Scout	-	
Rank 1		Sabotage speed +20% 		(3.33 seconds)
Rank 2		Sabotage speed +20% (40%)	(2.85 seconds)
Rank 3		Sabotage speed +20% (60%)	(2.5  seconds)
Rank 4		Sabotage speed +20% (80%)	(2.22 seconds)		
Rank 5		Sabotage speed +20% (100%)	(2 seconds) Concussion turret/Sticky stun time +100% (2x)  Binocs target count, cycle time and duration +100%(2x)



Rifleman -	
Rank 1		Stamina Max +20% 	(120)
Rank 2		Stamina Max +20% (40%)	(140)
Rank 3		Stamina Max +20% (60%)	(160)
Rank 4		Stamina Max +20% (80%)	(180)	
Rank 5		Stamina Max +20% (100%)	(200) Sticky throw distance +100% (2x)


Grenadier -	
Rank 1		Mine carry amount +20% 		(6, 12)
Rank 2		Mine carry amount +20% (40%)	(7, 14)
Rank 3		Mine carry amount +20% (60%)	(8, 16)
Rank 4		Mine carry amount +20% (80%)	(9, 18)			
Rank 5		Mine carry amount +20% (100%)	(10,20) Mine lay amount +100% (2x, 16)  Defusal speed, Mine lay speed +100% (1/2)

 

I think that bonuses to mine-laying, stamina, and stick-throwing are all way, way, too directly valuable in combat to be valid benefits to derive passively from your points.

That is, basically, one of the strongest arguments against adding more benefits to a high score. Trying to turn already-skilled players into super-soldiers by giving them absurd benefits like massively-increased ammo capacity, double stamina, or double range does not seem like something that is going to improve gameplay for anyone except the top handful of people on the score list at any given time.

If one team has one really good player who racks up a whole lot of points quickly, what you're saying is that you want to make the game revolve even more around them, and make it harder for anyone to turn the game around and beat them later on. That's a bad suggestion. Games that revolve around a tiny number of infantry on a 64-person server are no fun, and we should be trying to decrease that effect, not increase it.