Virginia Tech Shooting

The cause of the economic downfall was WWI and people stoping international trade under the pretneses of letting their own industries recovering without being outclassed by outside firms.

This led to a glowbal economic slowdown, and violla "The Great Depression"

In some senses a second war was needed to put people back to work fast.

What Hitler did with a country that was supposed to NEVER recover is amazing; to lift a country from sanctions and fines, from a depression and into a super power that was able to challange the world; that is amazing.

 

All he did was ignore restrictions placed on Germany and we foolishly allowed it.

 

The war shows how well we allowed it.

 

Disobeying the restrictions alone doesn't turn a poor country into a world power, you need to zelously rally the people and that is something few people were able to achive; though some of the goals those people were rallied for were more then questionable...

 

Fully agreed, we'd certainly have been better off with Germany ruling. But it looks like that could happen anyways, looking at Germany's position in the EU. I hope USA loses it's grip soon.

 

America thinks they have the best army in the world, no... It's smaller than China's, and less effective than Germany and France's. Don't forget, America are UNITED states, if you count UNITED Europe, there's be about 1000% effectivity rate, and perhaps an army just as big. I'm not saying Europe's the best set of nations in the world per say, but they, at this point, are more wealthy and powerful than America. America is being swallowed by it's own gigantic ego, and not realizing it.

Fine, America is a world power, and if it falls, it will severely damage the entire world, but don't forget that Japan is just one country, and if Japan falls off the world, that would leave the whole world damaged too, economically.

 

Yes this is to true. The problem with the us military is the same as the country we poke fun at the most. Frances army is excilent but like America its the pencle pushing buricratic stiffs that are more conserned about there reputaion and pocketbook than doing there job. This contry is riddled with rot from buricatic pigs. America is on its way into becoming a Plutocracy. To by in the federal government you now have to be a millionare to get any position. America needs to have Constitutional Convention ellected from the masses with no party sticking there noses in to give the us government an enima. But we all know how likly thats going to happen...

 

I'd like to see Russia rise again, and it is, slowly! We're even back in the top 10 world economies I think.

 

Russia will never rise again, it never has. The Sovient Union is gone and its a new Russia. It cant rise again, but be reborn.

 

With the new oild fields in the East, Russia will do very well, its up to the government...

 

Before I respond to this in greater detail, can I get some references to back that statement up? I know nothing about it, so...

Also, just to be clear,

So you blame Jewish people for the Holocaust because they refused to be forcibly deported from their respective homelands? I'm interpreting that correctly?

And as to the Virginia Tech shooting, yes, the Campus administration is taking a LOT of heat for not shutting down classes right away. As soon as they got news of the first shooting and that there was a known killer on the loose, they should have gone on lockdown.

 

As far as comparing the USA to anyone in Europe militarily, well, that's just plain stupid. The EU is at a stage where America was with the Articles of the Confederacy. That is, the EU is a primarily economic union. It is slowly becoming something more, something united that has a single military will. But in case you didn’t notice, the EU hasn’t been around since 1945. And how much full-on, ass-kicking, knock-down-the-door warfare has Europe as a union gone through? I’ll give you a hint: the answer is none. The EU is a peacekeeping force. That’s all it is. The individual isolated countries don’t have the political will to make it anything else than that, yet. You know what these armies are good for? Police work. Peacekeeping missions. Keeping the civvies in line. Guess who the EU turns to for military work. NATO! Oh wait! Guess who the big dog in NATO is! Oh look, it’s us, the US! Who remembers the latest military conflict the EU entered? Iraq? And who remembers how much political will could be maneuvered around to muster up a decent battle force in that battle? That’s right, jack shit, because half of the EU was pissed at America and only half thought it was a good idea. Until the EU actually makes a unified military, comparing Europe as a whole to America is a wasted exercise. You know what will happen if one country has some trouble? Same thing that happened in America’s Shay’s Rebellion: the other countries will sit around with their thumbs up their asses. Oh sure, they’d send the current EU strike forces, that’s a couple thousand right there. And I’m sure they’d all send a token force of a hundred or so guys. Yeah, that’ll help. Basically, it’s why the Articles of the Confederacy failed, and that’s why the EU is in the process of changing and adapting itself now.

And as for spending, we spend 500 billion on OUR military. You know what the latest figures I could find on Europe are? 250 billion. The only direct reference I could find is actually LESS then this, but we’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Nevertheless, if you can come up with another 250 billion, you come around and call me. http://www.eda.europa.eu/genericitem.aspx?area=Facts&id=178
(This figure states 200 billion in ’05, but also states 400 billion for the US.)

Also, there’s a big difference between nation BUILDING and nation DESTROYING. And while the US sucks a fat cock at nation building, we sure are good at destroying them. Anyone remember how fast we walked all the way to Baghdad with a BARE MINIMUM military force? It didn’t take too long, that’s for sure.

Not to mention the fact that we still have nuclear arms up to wazoo.

Here’s a juicy little tidbit from the UPI:

By Stefan Nicola
UPI Germany Correspondent
Berlin (UPI) Mar 27, 2007
“German Chancellor Angela Merkel said the European Union should aim to create a common army within the next 50 years, an ambitious and at the same time controversial plan.
"We need to get closer to a common army for Europe," Merkel last week told German daily Bild.
Proponents of an EU army cite the greater efficiency for such a multinational force: The EU's member states have some 1.9 million soldiers -- 50 percent more than the United States -- and spend roughly $250 billion a year on military means, yet the effectiveness of these armies is one-tenth of the U.S. military.”

Yeah, I’ll knock on France, Germany, and anyone else outside of China and Russia, because the fact of the matter is if someone started to mess with them, there’s not a lot anyone else would do about it.

Basically, you’ve got Russia and it’s army, and lord KNOWS what a good job they’re doing in Chechnya, you’ve got China, who’s decades behind EVERYONE else in terms of technology (how many years ago did WE send someone in to space? And what are they just managing to do right now?), and you’ve got lots of little isolated European countries that have decent armies but no political balls to do anything. What was that date again on a real EU army? Fifty years? Hmm, that’s right around the corner.

Is our army crushing us by inches? Yes. We’re in a huge national debt, we’re spread throughout the world too thin, we spend all our money on defense when we should be preventing thousands from starving to death in our streets, and idiot neo-conservative politicians think it’s the USA’s job to be the world’s policeman. Yes, if the EU continues on the path that America went down by forming the Constitution, it might become the world’s leading superpower. Yes, China has a huge military and is quickly catching up to us in technology. Yes, our army has gotten us into quite a pickle as of late. But to deny that the USA has military might and has had military might since WW2 is to ignore some very basic facts about the world. The main reason we’re in wars everywhere is because NO ONE else can do shit. You say other European countries would take up the slack? Well, we're all waiting (lord knows I am), but I don't see anything happening. Anytime now, ladies.

And as for living under a German Third Reich... yes, we don't know how bad it could be for sure, but one can very easily guess as to how bad it could be. I don't imagine Slith to find life under Germany's Hitler to be that intolerable, when you consider the fact that Stalin killed WAY more people as soon as he took over things IN Russia. I can't imagine life under the fist of the KGB to be any worse than life under the third Reich. But as for the rest of you, a quick google search of WW2 atrocities should be enough to show you just how great these governments were. USA has its fair share of atrocities, yes--Dresden and the atomic bomb come readily to mind. But in numbers, Allied deaths were far greater then axis deaths, and US atrocities (namely said bombs, but also treatment of POWs) can be reduced to military incompetence and neglect (Kind of like CURRENT human rights disasters committed by the US). You think the public had any idea of a bomb being dropped? It was so secret, almost NO ONE knew about the nuke. The worst thing IN America was our Japanese Internment, which has forever become a black eye and has had full reparations paid by Reagan (look at that, by a true jackass, even). Let’s see… what’s the worst thing that happened under the third Reich? Hmm…. Can’t remember… starts with an H... something about fire…

Deal with the fact that Axis atrocities boil down to systematic and nationwide accepted attempts to wipe out all possible dissidence. Basically, an SS soldier coming into your house and shooting you in the face for having different political opinions/being gay/different religious ideas, and your neighbors being totally cool with it. This didn’t just go on in Germany; it happened everywhere they conquered. I don’t remember reading about US soldiers shooting people in the face anywhere in Europe recently. In Iraq, yes; but again, I don’t think any sane (read: non-republican) person thinks Iraq is going well. Here’s a little sidenote: which part of post WW2 Germany had people trying to escape from? Which country ran that side? Which country conceived and built the Berlin Wall? Gee, I don’t remember any West Germans trying to cross any minefields. But maybe that’s just me. And even IN Iraq, our soldiers are being prosecuted for these war crimes. You hear about Haditha? You hear about Pat Tillman? You hear about GetMo? You hear about the legal actions being taken BY THE PRISONERS? Yeah, that would happen in Nazi Germany. "You have the right to remain silent... before I gas you and a dozen other people to death." The fact that you even KNOW about these things shows how different the US is then how the Third Reich could be. At least half the country is plenty pissed about shit our soldiers have done wrong. I don’t remember hearing about many Germans protesting in public about the Holocaust. I remember reading about Anne Frank and a silent german minority, but that’s what it was. A small, silent minority. As for other countries atrocities… well, gee, what countries have been gunning down their reporters left and right? What countries have been assassinating their ex-political figures with Polonium-210, or with some crazy disfiguring poison (Cough Cough Orange Revolution)? Hmm… let me think. Was it the USA? Hmm…. No…. I don’t THINK so. Wanna know how we treat our disaffected spies? Just look at Vallerie Plame. And what happened to (granted, WAY MORE more should have gone to jail) the politician that attacked her? They're going to jail, that’s what. (Bush will just pardon the scapegoat, but that’s an issue with neo-cons again.) Hmm…. Assassination via radioactive poison vs. prosecuting the assailants. Yes, that’s fair.

(continued next post)

 

Sorry to double-post, it's the stupid character limit thing.

If you wanna know how bad things COULD have gone, just look at South America. Do you see any huge civil wars/giant paramilitary groups going on in Old World Europe like you do in South America? No? Probably because we didn’t fuck with Europe like we did with South America. There, we DID fund assassinations, anti-government organizations, and destabilization efforts. Iran/CONTRA ring any bells? It got us just about 40 years of craziness that is only now being dealt with. Before you go bitching about American atrocities, why don’t you compare your hardships to those of people we’ve REALLY oppressed. And if your main beef is about America’s decadence and ego, then yeah, the New Russians/Noveau Rich of Russia sure set a good standard for comparison.

Again, I don’t expect everyone to agree with me. Like I said, Hitler might have run a pretty decent government when compared to Stalin or Mao Tse Dong. He sure killed fewer people than those two.

Anyway. If you wanna know about atrocities, go and google Tiananmen Square, or maybe the atrocities committed by the Red Army after WW2. Yeah, they managed that well.

I guess what I'm saying is, as for Europe being better under Nazi rule... is your logic here that they would defeat/overthrow their oppressors quickly and live happily ever after? You realize how bloody Chechnya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Eastern Germany during the cold war, and pretty much every other occupation force ever known is, right? So you're saying Nazi germany, an acknowledged genocidal force, would NOT induce such horrors of war and punishments on the people it was occupying? Wow, I had no idea the Nazis were so considerate. Sure are better then us Americans!

Or are you just saying that Europe had things under control in WW2, and there was no reason for the US to get involved, because they could handle it? Huh, I guess we should have just let Hitler finish securing France and go on to invade England.

 

Thank you, Lobster, for a brief reprieve from the near-contiguous string of willful ignorance.

 

err yeah lets all listen to the guy from the only country to ever use the atom bomb in war...on civilians...which killed 140000 (only the Hirshema bomb, not counting the 73884 deaths from Nagasaki)...in retaliation for pearl harbour...in which 1171 soldiers died.

i like how the american gov. still hasnt acknowlaged the death count, or even admitted they were wrong in what they were doing...

but yeah, lets forget this shall we? what were u saying about 'bloody Chechnya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Eastern Germany' again, because in sure each one of these was much much worse than what your army did...

i say this only to people like lobster, cus i know many americans arent as ignorant as him...

 

meh I don't think the atom bomb was that bloody, more a bit cinching

Anyway no1 should ever think the US isn't a world power, but you should take in account that they don't rule the world They are not all powerful, like they claim to be. (*mumble*someting like nazis...*mumble*)

Apart from that the US is like any other country on the world. Arrogant and full of mistakes. It's part of being a nation I guess...

And for the Europeans not having the will to retaliate: Try us, I say. You'll see how fast an European army is born when one of our nations is under attack.
Europe is holy and any hostile alien army setting foot on OUR ground will be struck down by collective forces...

 

Skipping over my mention of Dresden and the bombs, huh. Well I reiterate that the bomb was indefensible. I'll also reiterate that the bomb was TOP SECRET. No one knew about it, whearas EVERYONE and their mother knew about Hitler's final solution.

And Nazi Germany would have done a hell of a lot worse shit then us. If you deny this, you're living in a dream world. Do I really have to whip out the holocaust numbers? Or the fact that germany was already working on their own A-bomb? Or the fact that they were ALREADY using vengeance weapons on SPECIFICALLY civilian targets? And you honestly think that, given half the chance, they wouldn't nuke the shit out of someone, or start killing random people left and right?

You do realize how many people Stalin killed, right? And how many people Mao killed, right? And how the Chechen wars have reached a MINIMUM of 65,000 civvies killed, and possibly 200,000, right? What atrocities has the US committed in Europe, lately? Hmm... oh yeah, like the time we killed three million Poles, or half a million Italians! Wait, I don't remember those. Probably because it didn't happen!

And if you're gonna throw numbers around, you might want to do a quick comparison. Last I checked, there were a heck of a lot more civvies dead on our side then on Germany's. Makes the germans look real purty, don't it? While you're at it, you might as well check those holocaust numbers for me. Are they more then 140,000? I can't remember. You'll have to refresh my memory.

edit:
I'm not saying the US should think of itself as a high and mighty presence. It shouldn't; being world policeman is what got us into this mess. Should we keep doing what we've been doing? No. But what I am saying is that I don't see remember anyone else volunteering for the job in the last 50 years.

And as for the EU, just read the article. Merkel herself points out they aren't on the same grounds as NATO. And as for this unity? I don't remember seeing many other countries supporting Britain in fighting Islamic extremists, even after the London Train Bombings. Those that are, are doing so via NATO. Oh wait, I forgot who runs the show over at NATO. And is anyone even sending troops via the EU? Hell, I don't know. But if they are, not enough to matter. And that brings us back to my first point. And if someone like Turkey got into the EU and ended up having some sort of crisis, you really think each EU country would send over it's own personal military? Or do you think they'd send the EU strike forces? Cause last I checked, the USA doesn't have any one state deciding just to "sit this one out" on Iraq. We've got some politicians who TRY, yes, but our army isn't exactly operating on a state-by-state donation basis.

Will this stay the same way? No, the EU is getting some balls. But did it have these balls since WW2? Probably not.

 

i Dont think im going to try and argue with you, because you clearly have way to much time on your hands...

ill admit i missed your dismissive sentence on the BOMBS but i dont really feel that matters anyway.

Why did you change the subject to the Nazi holocaust again? im pretty sure we were talking about nagasaki and hiroshema. oh, and the highest estimate of deaths from holocasut was 10000 less that hiroshema alown.


i dont think i could win this arguement, because your just to good at twisting words, and skimping over subjects...mixing facts with your opinions, its so hard to extract your real points.

as well as that, i simply dont understand your arguement. You seem to think that insulting europe is a way of making questions about America go away... constantly refering back to the atrocities that happened in europe is NOT a way of justifying your own.

i hate to have to say this, but your speak like a politition.

 

Canada has a great special forces teams. The German army has been very powerful for the last 250 years. France, under Napoleon, strong as hell. But please don't even compare the French army to anything the U.S. has. What kind of dumb fucks build a wall of defenses that only blocks the border of germany and france. Thats like building a fence with 3 sides. I have nothing against the German army, in all we helped rebuild much of the German army after the 2nd war, but France. The fucking douchebags talk shit about us all the time when action comes their way, they tuck their dicks between their legs and pass themselves off as french women, because in essence they look the same.

If sorry but your logic is fucking terrible. The United States and a "United Europe" is a totally different thing. Europe as a whole have been fighting for the last 2000 years against each other, and it wasnt up until 60 some years ago did they actually cease fighting one another.

I'm glad you classify Europe the continent a group of a dozen or so nations, and compare it to a nation of one.

I must say, It must be the huge america cock syndrome, because our huge cock, equals the little tiny peckers you guys put together.

And about Japan, they aren't going anywhere. They are free riding off the defenses of our country. If we had another nation that would totally defend us, we would have soo much more money to spend on the economy and health care, and I don't think we could be touched.