Vehicle Ovehaul Thread

Discussion in 'Art' started by f1r3w4rr10r, Apr 2, 2011.

?

Hatch up or down?

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  2. down

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  1. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    me don unnerstands :(

    (maybe cause of alcohol aboose)
     
  2. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    damn i've been confused with commie too many times now

    is he really that cool?
     
  3. communism

    communism poof

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    2 cool
    4 school
     
  4. 0yv47

    0yv47 Member

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    i meant as in it beeing up, flippes compleatly the other way, so its open AND not in the way....

    ;)
     
  5. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    it already is that way? O.o

    if i still didnt get it right: DRAW EET!!
     
  6. 0yv47

    0yv47 Member

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    wait... now i see it, nvm^^'
     
  7. Deadpool

    Deadpool SVETLANNNAAAAAA

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    commuplete lamernism

    player overhaul thread
     
  8. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    This. Very much so.
     
  9. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    [​IMG]

    anyone got any idea what that is?
    i think its an old rocketlauncher but im not sure
    for everyone not knowing where that is: bottom side of the turret at the front

    if its a rocketlauncher: should i rebuild it that way?
     
  10. Zygoth

    Zygoth Member

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    It might look cool. But isn't 2 missile launchers a little too much?

    :D
     
  11. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    the only prob is: you cant shoot backwards with this ML
    as the body goes slightly up to the back you would hit the body with it
     
  12. Icefrenzy_TKER

    Icefrenzy_TKER Member

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    Holy shit! I requested this like 1 year ago and finally!!! :D
     
  13. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    anyone any idea?
    maybe they are just lights, but that would be a bit stupid on a turret

    if we cant find a purpose i will just leave them out
     
  14. Omneh

    Omneh Member

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    Technically there are six tubes visible.

    I don't think it really matters that much what the missile launchers look like, provided they look like missile launchers and are fairly ambiguous in their payload, as due to time and effort constraints I doubt we'll ever see a unique model for every variety of missile launcher so the model has to fit everything.

    Although, I do remember mayama knocking out unique models for different weapons in no time during the clusterfuck that was the empires art team, so really, I don't know. Wish I had the patience to learn how to model and thus know what I am talking about instead of being only able to piss about with brushes and displacements in a program designed in the previous century.

    On a semi-unrelated note, mayama was fucking awesome and his models rocked, such a shame that he was pretty much alienated from empires development due to various reasons.
     
  15. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    to be honest i got quite a few ideas for different cannons, but you cant change much on MLs as they only differ in size and the only thing that might look different are the missiles themselves

    (assumed we dont want models like UT with dozens of lights and stuff)
     
  16. Zygoth

    Zygoth Member

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    I was just thinking, missile tank for BE? Dual cannon medium for NF? As in, a second medium with a different turret.

    2 missile launcher slots and no cannon for the BE missile medium and 2 cannons and no missile slots for the NF cannon medium?

    There already is a thread about creating more medium variants...
     
  17. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    if we should equalize both right away, so same CN adn ML slots per tank. but that doesnt cope with the devs perception of "asymetrical balance" (which imo is balancing suicide anyway)

    hell you cant even get mootant to agree with a fucking hatch for the NFAPC, good luck trying to make him say yes to that heavy thing ...
     
  18. Omneh

    Omneh Member

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    It would be nice if modellers really knew what they were meant to be modelling, as as far I know, the current research tree is going to get replaced with something hopefully less godawful in some distant version, which will entail new weapons and stuff. As it stands, modelling doesn't seem quite worth it as there is no definite guarantee that the model will be put into the game unless its a direct improvement and cleaning up of an existing design, as you are doing here.

    The problem is, there are some rather big flaws with the current design, both in terms of gameplay and appearance. I'll stick to vehicles as this thread is about vehicles, but what immediately comes to mind as problematic is how gimped in general NF vehicles are compared to BE vehicles, with the exception of the NF LT and BE AFV. I'll list the problems for easy reading.

    • Jeeps
    NF jeep looks ugly, handles worse than the BE jeep. Not much of an issue as jeeps are fairly useless outside of their anti-personnel and ninja'ing role. BE jeep is small, fast, a pain to hit but can't carry so many people. The increased passenger capacity of the AFV vs the LT doesn't make up for this. Would suggest jeeps in general get 3 seats, with one position being a gunner position, resulting in a fast, cheap, vulnerable piece of backup for a squad that is useful for more than jeeplulz, jeeplulz and jeeplulz. Gunner position could have stuff like grenade launchers and rockets available in addition to the ubiquitous machine gun, because really, rocket jeeps would be awesome.

    • APC's
    APC's aren't so bad at the moment, generally fairly average. The lack of hatch on the NF APC is problematic though, as BE has far more tactical options in regards to nadespamming from the hatch, sticky stunning, ect ect. The gun on the NF APC looks ridiculously dinky though, I can't take it seriously at all.

    • Light Tank/AFV
    The LT is godly in both terms of appearance (need I say more, best and most unique looking tank in empires <3) and gameplay as it can remain viable right up until late game (heavies really need limited turret rotation speeds to make the combination of absurd amounts of guns, heavy armour and decent speed less ridiculous, but thats another topic...) due to its speed, handling and low profile which makes it fairly difficult to hit, and rewards skilled drivers. The AFV on the other hand is essentially a mobile coffin that can perform amusing acrobatics with room for four. While the issue of the disparity between it and the LT has lessened somewhat in recent versions, the LT is still better off in a straight up match up, and the AFV is generally more vulnerable and less useful due to its size, as it can be hit far easier, a problem which isn't really mitigated by the extra plate of armour it gets. It doesn't help that the AFV looks almost identical the APC at anything other than getting run over range, making visual identification a pain.

    • Mediums
    Biggest issue here is of course the NF medium generally being completely outclassed by the BE medium in every categerory aside from weapon loadout and sometimes being able to run over unbuilt walls. The BE medium has a lower profile and is thus more difficult to hit and handles better due to its smaller size and similarity to modern day real world tanks. For those who will inevitably cry BUT EMPIRES IS NOT REAL WORLD QQ, the rules of common sense still apply here, real world tanks look like how they look for a reason, there is a good reason why we don't trundle around in WWI style tanks anymore. In terms of visual appearance, both tanks are fairly uninspiring as the BE medium is simply a smaller ripoff of the Leopard II tank, which is undeniably badass but still, a modicum of originality please. As for the NF medium, it just cries out for a sword to be implemented into the game so I can sit in it and make poor jokes about being driven closer so I can hit them with it. by which I mean the similarities of the NF medium to the Leman Russ from Warhammer 40K are a little too overt. Even so, thats hardly an issue because if you want to fix the tank, it won't be looking like that anyway as the shape is fairly integral to the fairly unique appearance of the Leman Russ, even if its stupid and doesn't make sense. (then again, 40K doesn't make a great deal of sense. Go figure.)

    • Heavies
    The NF heavy has the same issues as the NF medium, only exacerbated. Its height and length makes it difficult to drive and almost impossible to miss unless you have motor neurone disease and are playing by twitching a muscle in your cheek, it completely lacks any indication of its primary armament (missiles, although as i've mentioned before, trying to balance missiles vs cannons hasn't really worked, see this) and again, its an ugly mess, with seemingly little thought put into its design and an awful lot of thought put into slapping pointless detail onto said design to cover its flaws. It looks too much like the NF medium as well, making visual identification more difficult than it should be. The BE heavy, on the other hand, is pretty much fine, looks cool, and is the signature tank of the game really. Personally I think it is a little small, and the textures don't look that great, and perhaps it does look a bit too generic future-tanky, but that is a minor quibble that really means nothing unless somebody feels like pulling an actually coherent (unlike what we have currently) and attractive art style for the game out of their arse.

    • Artillery
    Artillery sucks in general, and its mechanics should be rethought before any attempt at remodelling it is made. Suffice to say, being locked to staring at the sky and a bit of a cannon while watching white triangles come up on the minimap if you are a grenadier with feedback, and as anything else, well, you shouldn't be driving an artillery tank. Seriously, who's dumb idea was making an entire class of tank (a fairly important class of tank no less, which technically should fulfill a very important role even if its eclipsed by the all powerful heavy tank) only realistically useable for one of four infantry classes equipped with an incredibly specific skill that is pretty much useless outside of an arty tank?
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011
  19. aaaaaa50

    aaaaaa50 Member

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    While I greatly appreciate what you're saying, I have point out that since this is not only kinda off topic, but it's a big issue with gameplay, perhaps this discussion should be taken out of the art forum and brought to the general or gameplay forum?
     
  20. Omneh

    Omneh Member

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    Firstly, look at the title of the thread. It's reasonably ontopic.

    Secondly, art and gameplay are inextricably related, and empires suffers very much because that fact is not recognised, and there seems to be, and almost always has been, an apparent utter breakdown of communication between artists and other elements of the dev team, resulting in art being produced without direction as to its purpose or effect in gameplay. A very large part of the reason empires is so difficult to pick up for new players is not just thats its really, really ugly (and realistically, thats a pretty big turnoff for a lot of people, even an antiquated engine like source can do far better than what empires is doing currently (although empty's particles are pretty cool nowadays)) but also that a large part of the art simply doesn't make sense or work visually, and while the game mechanics themselves are fairly sound, that doesn't matter when those game mechanics are obscured by poor art.

    Even so, you've got a point about the placement of the post, i'm not entirely the issues I raised within it would be easily dissected within the scope of this thread without detracting heavily from the good work firewarrior is doing.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2011

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