Hi guys Basically my gripe is the way in which turrets are being used as an offensive weapons rather than just for defending installations against solo players whilst no one is guarding it. For example , 2 douchebag engineers run up onto a hill next to your base one lays down an ML turret the other an MG.This is very lame. You could argue that a good team can easily dispose of nuisance turrets however you could also argue that a good team/commander does not need to use turrets in this fashion. In relation to the scenario i mentioned it also annoys me that by doing this engineers can do the job of a rifleman and a grenadier without having to worry about ammo , aiming or even being alive/present when the guns fire. As we know in most RTS games turrets have to be built within a radius of a friendly installation. However if this were to be implimented we would then loose the ability to fortify strategic positions in which we had no installations. Possible solutions : Give the radar facility the ability to "jam" the aiming systems on enemy turrets , thus preventing douchebags from attacking your base with turrets. The range on this would have to be atleast the same as the range of lvl 3 turrets. Introduce a new comm built facility , the turret generator. Turrets can only be built near your own facilities OR a turret generator. This applies to engineer turrets too. Limit the amount of generators that can be built and the amount of turrets that can be built round them. Give engineers the ability to jam targetting systems on enemy engineer turrets. Overall : Turrets are for defending against (at most) a small group of enemy infantry or single unit of armor. They should not (as they currently are) be used as offensive weapons or as a replacement for actual players. And they should not be used as frequently as they currently are. If you wish to dominate/control an area of the map then get up there and guard it. If your base is being owned by a bunch of douchebags then defend it. If your being chewed out by enemy tanks/infantry respawn as a grenadier/rifleman. Ok thats about it. In general tho stop being douchebags , get some leet skills and stop relying on turrets. Oh.... and TAKE COVERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!
turrets can have any role they are usefull in tbh. in cnc gold, hand of nod + pillboxes expands were perfectly viable strategies
My point is simply that this game is not a standard RTS. The game should (and does) focus heavily on first person player vs player encounters as apposed to the standard RTS format of computer AI controlled by one player. I am not suggesting that turrets be removed from the game , I simply think that players should be encouraged to play an offensive class instead of relying on turrets to do the job for them.
true, but i dont see whats wrong with turrets, except the amount they are placed in. 3 ml turets next to each other should be max imo. Dno how to really limit this, right now the build limit sucks, not only does it not work, but it leaves no space for expanding.
Just don't let 'em build turrets so close to enemy buildings, wham, no longer an offensive weapon. I agree 100%.
Thanks for your replys jkun and dizzyone. The main problem with this argument is the genre clash we get when combining FPS and RTS. RTS games cannot function without computer AI controlled units. Granted you tell all your units where to go , but the computer decides what route to take and if you leave them there it also decides how to re act to enemy units. AI in FPS games is rather rare , unless your playing against bots. The only example of positive AI that springs to mind is the turrets in TFC. I say positive because the negative aspects of AI in many FPS games comprise mainly of cheats So really the issue is the crossover of AI from RTS to FPS. Why is this an issue? Because in traditional FPS games players rely on there own abilities to fufil the given objective , if you add AI units to the game it undermines the need to have any skill. So the question in relation to turrets is how to get round the need for AI controlled units without sacraficing the human element of skill and ability?
Yeh I agree, very hard to combine the 2, but if you are going to compare, compare it teamwork wise, the gameplay is a bit chaotic right now, but one level 3 turret is no problem, its boring ofc, very boring to have to destroy one. But without players turrets by themselves are pretty much useless, except in some cases where they are used as defense (riflemen without grenades, or vs a level3 turret). Also as Offence ofcourse, but a team that cannot counter a few engineers and a commander building turrets (or do the same thing) have a big weakness in their teamwork, its just another way to take advantage of your teamwork, by owning the turrets, or owning with turrets. Its all about how far can you exploit your position, if it would mean that both teams are building turrets untill one team runs out of resources to keep up, (ammo, players, health, engineer that revives, resources, whatever) it would still add to the teamplay gameplay (ok dno how to say this ) But its very hard to distinguish from battles with turrets and a team that has an edge and bases their defence and offence on turrets. I definitly think something should change here, but on the other hand I wouldnt want to see turrets get removed, even if they take away a bit from player vs player battles
maybe the team fortress approach of having to keep turrets loaded might help, because obviously 2 engineers camping about near a base arnt gonna last long in a snipers hands i mean shouldnt the engineers of been taken out in the 1st place if theyve managed to get that close AND got 2 level 3 turrets up and running? are turrets liable to being locked onto by missles? if not i think that hould be something that should be added
If only smoked worked to stop turrets from attaining targets, this would be a non issue. Stop turrets from being able to find targets through smoke, get a couple concussion grenades in there, or build a wall with a couple ml behind it with engineers to repair and those turrets are smoked. Turrets are like other buildings, if they are left undefended, they should be able to be destroyed. I think our main concern here is how to go about that in a way that keeps gameplay fun.
Thinking about it.. What about adding a Power-Plant / Power-Station (or whatever it's called) building? Turrets would need electricity .. lets say ML turrets only .. so they could only function within the radius of an active powerplant. This adds the stratgy of taking down the enemys power supply before engaging, like found in a lot of RTS games. Of course powerplants could be constructed so turrets are in range of enemy buildings .. but since they can be destroyed rather easily and are pretty big it wouldn't be big of a problem. An exception might / could be the turrets that Engineers can build .. those would function like normal everywhere but would not target enemy buildings except turrets.
I like the idea of having an overall Powerpool. Like you say tho they would need to implement a powerstation , having to build power lines between facilities could also be quite fun .
yes ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner. The simplest, most effective and most positive solution for gameplay yet.
Read the thread title ML Turrets wouldn't be usefull anymore to attack the enemy base by for example building some on a hill near to it. This, however, could be exploited since "the enemy" could build turrets or other buildings inside "our" base and the base defenses wouldn't attack it / them. Partial solution would be to not allow ML turrets to attack any building except other turrets.
yes i know that gunnery, but if i may quote ermmm ok himself: I have seen lev3 ml base attacks, but this is has to do with turretspam, not the turrets themselves, they are pretty useless. Besides, may I remind you guys build limit is currently not working
i agree with zachtos, seems to be the most effective solution as for MGs perhaps some sort of EMP grenade could be added? as a choice for the engineers grenades or something
Radars block targeting systems of turrets! It'd add an interesting use to radars. (Missles entering radar area would had homing scrambled, turrets inside of radar range wouldn't target). It'd also be interesting to have it apply to other homing missles - a non dumbfire grenadier rocket goes wild - a dumbfire rocket doesn't. Homing Missles on tanks go funny inside enemy radar range, but none homing ones wouldn't. It'd certainly be interesting. (And provide something to defense)
