Tickets for tanks rather than infantry.

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Aquillion, May 14, 2011.

  1. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    Really i wish we could do something to prevent coms jsut driving around with scout speed for 10 minutes and making people quit, but nothing comes to mind that wouldnt backfire hard during normal game.
    Its a shame people dont use the surrender thing in those situations. Or you know, admins doing something about it.
     
  2. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Think of Starcraftu, where the win condition is eliminating all buildings. Then think how often one side eliminates every last pylon/barracks in a corner of the map. Just because the side has no production doesn't mean the side is done and dusted - they may still have plenty of firepower available, but simply no means to replenish it.
     
  3. Empty

    Empty Member

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    Idk how many fucking times I have to suggest this for people to actually consider how many fucking problems it fixes.
     
  4. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    I think this would be good to try. It probably wouldn't be too painful to implement.

    If it works, then we can eventually throw up a hud timer with sine text like "You have no reinforcements! You will be overwhelmed in x seconds!"
     
  5. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Hey guys let's stem even further away from RTS in this FPS-dominated FPS/RTS hybrid.
     
  6. Empty

    Empty Member

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    DDD I'm going to request you start making sense, or leave.
     
  7. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm going to request you start reading my posts, and watch your language when talking with others. This is not a place for "Banta".
     
  8. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    I don't see how that changed win condition takes anything away from the RTS experience, nor how keeping it like it is adds anything to it.
     
  9. Empty

    Empty Member

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    How does changing win/loss conditions affect the RTS vs FPS gameplay?
    And don't you fucking dare start the argument over how important either element is, this is not the time nor the place to discuss the RTS vs FPS ratio.
     
  10. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Post #82 contains my answer.

    To slightly expand on it, an FPS round ends when a certain objective is met, be it a destroyed bombsite, secured flag, or rescued hostage ot even a met kill quota, which is in stark contrast to an RTS's total elimination.
     
  11. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    Yeah, but in an FPS you can't technically get everyone to be able to revive everyone else without using much resources and in that way prolong the game indefinitely.
     
  12. Empty

    Empty Member

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    Total elimination isn't fun.
    We're designing a game, our goal is not to fit into the nebulous definition of an RTS, it's to give as many people as much fun as possible.

    This is game design 101, your goal should ALWAYS to be making the game more enjoyable to play, at no point have I or any other player been sitting during the post-round comm chase thinking 'man I'm glad I can't spawn right now, thank fuck for these RTS mechanics!'

    Also RTSes have objectives beyond utter rout. In fact utter rout is the cheapest and least interesting RTS objective in my opinion, territory control, securing objectives and destroying certain targets have all been objectives in multiplayer games. In fact, for one hilariously ironic example, killing the enemy commander in the game Total Annihilation will win the game even if they have shitloads of factories still online.
     
  13. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    apart of that, most modern RTS have additional win conditions for a good reason. if youd have to eliminate all players additionally to all building a hidden scunt could hold up the game for quite a while.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
  14. McGyver

    McGyver Experimental Pedagogue

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    That seems like shitty game design we should totally avoi... oh wait...
     
  15. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Yeah, it's a bit silly to say total elimation is what empires should be when destroying the commander vehicle is the main objective of the game. If you could somehow convince people to change that then you have some ground to stand on when trying to makes empires more focused on destroying all building/infantry/whatever.
     
  16. nick

    nick Member

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    well TA(springrts.com) had the ultimate destroyer weapon and multiple standoff ending items

    TA(springrts.com) never ended in a stalemate because there was ALWAYS a bigger and more powerful weapon to build, and whoever built it won all of the time.
     
  17. f1r3w4rr10r

    f1r3w4rr10r Modeler

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    Plug much?

    Empires doesn't have the assets to pull that off. And even if, that would be the wrong way to go. It's not always about making rounds last longer and longer and always give the currently loosing team some other thing they could do to still win. A game should only last longer if both contenders are almost equal and need to use every edge they have. That's where you can prolong a round.
    But if one contender clearly has the advantage, that contender should win in a foreseeable time and end the round.
     
  18. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Really, why are you guys fighting over small things all over this thread?

    Making death costs tickets is an incredibly bad idea. It's not innovative or smart, it's just dumb. In the current game that would mean you would substantially increase the negative effect tickets have on the game, remove a whole lot of teamplay and heroic pushes, and create an environment where it's criminal to die. Meaning the soft jobs we have in Empires would effectively be removed, because if you're just a builder, a maintainer, a skirmisher, and you aren't that good in a firefight, you're basically a liability. Whenever you die, you hurt the team.

    Added to that, vehicles and vehicle weapons would have an insane impact on the game. People would tell you not to spawn, instead of spawn and try to help. People would scream at you for trying to repair a wall, because you are wasting tickets and hurting the team whenever you get hit by a HE shell. No one cares about your manpower, you're destroying the team.

    I don't know that needed to be explained at all, let alone discussed.

    Right, but if we linked tickets to resources, we could instead have a resource cost to that instead of a ticket one. And it would be a renewable resource.

    Also, to prevent things becoming seriously dumb, it would be better, I think, to finally go into 0 tickets = long spawn time. People are right in that no tickets being the end of the game is a bad idea. It shouldn't stop the game, but it should create an opening for the winning team. If there's a 30-60s respawn wait after tickets are used up, when they're gone the game slows down but if tickets are replenished by res nodes, the winning team will gain an opening and move in to the endgame, more naturally.

    This also creates a comeback zone where the team out of tickets can turn its attention to getting more refineries to earn reinforcements, which they could use to throw the enemy off-balance with a spate of fast and aggressive movements to overwhelm their defence.

    Of course, it would be a very good idea if enemy tickets were masked for this. And possibly if the enemy radar had a screen displaying their team tickets inside.

    Also this, is a good idea. Maybe more than 60 seconds, since it takes about 20 to build, at least 10 for the comm to find a decent position and an indeterminate time for an engy to find the building. Assuming the whole base isn't under attack.

    Should probably include the VF in this calculation though, as they spawn APC's.

    Really, flexible ticket structures would allow us to do lots of interesting things. And with this dev team it's the perfect time to do it.
     
  19. Empty

    Empty Member

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    Well if a VF is up you can just produce an APC to avoid the game over.

    EDIT: If you have no spawn your situation should be critical, everything should be dropped in order to get a rax online. This gives you an ultimate goal which isn't as random and luck based as CV kills (destroy all raxes) and gives focus to the losing team as well as significant warnings for when you've fucked up (IE our raxes are down, we are clearly losing really bad, get a rax up and turn this around ASAP)

    It's a far better primary wincon than the CV, which can die to random shit, but can also survive the team dying quite easily too.

    that's not to say we should remove the CV as a wincon, but I think when nobody can spawn, the game needs to end, or people need to be able to spawn again, period.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2015
  20. nick

    nick Member

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    GIVE THIS GUY A COOKIE
    *cookie*
     

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