Theory of Frontline CV

Discussion in 'Game Play' started by pedro0930, Dec 6, 2007.

  1. pedro0930

    pedro0930 Member

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    Frontline CV doctrine
    In most cases, the commander prefer to leave the CV back in base and this trend is especially true in public server. Since I started playing during the 1.07x days, I've played many small games in which the commander not only needs to command, but also needs to add his one gun, or engineer tool kit in the battlefield. Now, with the release of 2.0, players new and old flock to play this mod and the number of players is no longer a problem. No longer is the one extra manpower the commander can contribute significant as it used to be. So, is risky move such as moving the CV to the front really necessary? The answer is, of course, no. However, this doctrine, although a bit risky still provide many benefits. The purpose of this thread is to explore those benefit and how to minimize the risk.

    Intelligence Gathering
    The commanding vehicle is the fastest unit at the start of the game. You can drive right into the enemy base before they even finish their first refinery. You can observe troop movements and warn your team the formation and size of their forces heading to different key location before hand. Sometimes, you can also get more information and help you predict the plan of the opposing team, such as an early VF or perhaps a relocation.

    As a distraction-tactical
    The Command Vehicle is a large and attractive target. After all, destroying the command vehicle means victory for you team. However, the command vehicle is quite durable so early elements of the enemy forces are usually incapable of causing imminent threats. The ability for the command vehicle to run over enemy infantries allows it to create further chaos and weaken enemies in the early engagements. By driving the CV right into the opposing team's base can also cause large number of players to chase you and forget the command they just received, such as heading to a specific location (remember to run over those who are still heading toward their way point despite the commotion as you make your escape). Another effect this may cause is for the enemy commander to underestimate your skill. Have your team screaming "omg noob comm" or "omfg, our comm sux" as you perform your seemly risky and to be frank, foolish, CV rush can cause the opposing team to think you are in fact, some noob that just wanted to run people over with the CV.
    Empires proudly calls itself an FPS+RTS hybrid, so let us not forget the psychology aspect of strategy.

    As a distraction-Strategic level
    The mere presence of the command vehicle at the frontline can cause many different reactions from the enemy. One of them is indicating your determination or at least, plan, to establish a strong position in that area. The enemy commander might direct more manpower to attack your position, thus making them more predictable. If your team is able to hold the front, you might very well gain map control of at least half of the map. Also, since this

    As a way to direct your own troops
    Your own men are quite aware of the risk you are taking when you position your CV at the midst of battle. They will naturally try to protect you. Therefore, y positioning your CV at the front that urgently requires assistance (and perhaps with some communication) means an extra incentive you can provide.

    As a safety measure
    The most dangerous place is also the safest place to be. By staying in the frontline, you are protected by a large presence of your own troops. This allows less defense in your base, and more at the frontline. The sheer friendly traffic moving pass you means less likely to be ninja by a lone engineer or grenadiers.

    The Risk
    To be continued (gotta get to class D:, will finish this when I get home)
     
  2. arklansman

    arklansman Member

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    I love rushing as comm.

    I don't however, love rushing as comm when Opie also rushes and my team tries to deconstruct the CV from the front. :|
     
  3. Private Sandbag

    Private Sandbag Member

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    good post, I like it.

    mainly the power of running people over with it, as well as wasting their time and even resources as they pathetically try to wall you in (don't try to wall in a CV unless you are just walling a chokepoint.. you'll just waste res)
     
  4. Opie

    Opie Member

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    TBH running over enemy players was more fun in 1.07 because they would not day and stay stuck in the comm. There was one game where I had like 6 members stuck in my comm at once. That was hilllllllllllllarious. I have yet to do a full base attack with the comm in 2.0 but I have used the comm to secure a spot or when another team tries to attack me. The comm takes a hell of a lot of punishment and is a lovely distraction. The comm is also a good mine defusal tank. I've led tank rushes thru a minefield and while all the grens and mls try to kill me, my tanks destroy their base. Saying that however, as hopefully some of you know by now, scouts have made it much more risky to bring the comm anywhere. One scout and an engi can easily take out a comm. Please do continue as I fully support all aggressive comms. I agree with 100% you have said so far.
     
  5. Rexz

    Rexz Member

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    It's not fun running into early placed mines though.

    Rush all you want, but becareful atleast. ;D

    And there was also a map where the CV rush plan failed as the rush was too quick and there was no control, causing the vehicle to be blocked by enemies building and "engie placed" wall, so in the end it got raped by a whole bunch of grenadier. lol....
     
  6. Shinzon

    Shinzon Member

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    Good thing more people are adopting our old timer doctrine :p

    More power to you! :p
     
  7. Kamber

    Kamber Member

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    As i once heard one of the testers say (cant remember who) "the commanders armor is the most under appreciated resource in empires" this is especially true early in the game when tanks are rare and cant do much damage due too crappy engines. one thing a rushing comm has to remember is not to get out of the comm for any reason if you think there are enemy's around unless you have backup or a spawn near by. i have seen many game end when the comm has been killed very far away out sidethe commander vehicle and we couldn't get there fast enough.
     
  8. dizzyone

    dizzyone I've been drinking, heavily

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    I don't really do it, i'd rather spend the time watching my men, afterall, every second driving is one not commanding ;o

    I got pwned many times by rushing commanders, but I've also won many against rushing cvs by keeping my head cool. It all depends on your timing I guess. Driving over people is fun but I'd rather do it in a 3phase light tank :D
     
  9. the_6th_monkey

    the_6th_monkey Member

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    Nah I don't like this idea, I'd rather leave my cv in my well fortified base than drive it into a war zone....

    Its a good way to get your cv walled in or killed :rolleyes:

    Driving for early resource points though is a good idea though
     
  10. petemyster

    petemyster Member

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    yeah i can see its advantages, but when you have 16 people on your team you can't help but put your feet up and tell em to march into the turrets and pistol wip em down...<sigh> my stratgies are unpridictable :-P
     
  11. Deiform

    Deiform Member

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    The main use of the CV I think we'll see in the future is rapid troop deployment.

    Because of the non-clipping through the CV, a comm can push his troops very quickly across the map. This works very well on cyclo, just driving in a straight line and in 3 seconds 2 full squads are in the south city setting up a base. 3 seconds later, the comm is back in the main base protected by level 3 turrets.
     
  12. Niarbeht

    Niarbeht Member

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    CPatton is the first person I ever saw use this effectively.

    Others probably did it before him, but he was damn good at it.

    Hey, where IS CPatton, anyway?
     
  13. Shinzon

    Shinzon Member

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    He left Empires I belive; he rejoin a couple of times though but he keeps dissapearing...

    Fear Opie; he will run over your entire team :p
     
  14. arklansman

    arklansman Member

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    Yes, noobs are attracted to the front of Opie's CV like moths to a bug zapper. :D
     
  15. dizzyone

    dizzyone I've been drinking, heavily

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    cpatton? You have to be kidding me, cpatton used the most failed tactic ever, like ever.
    He always lost vs a team that knew what they were doing, all it is good for is against a noob team that doesnt know how to counter it. I've never lost from him doing that crap and its just real annoying being on his team when he does it. Infact he was banned from the server for doing it and also shouting his doomed to fail orders over the mic.

    If you think thats a good tactic, you have no idea what a solid tactic is all about and should probably refrain from using the word tactic or strategy ever again. If anyone did it effectively, I'd say I've seen a few JPL members do it much more effectively than cpatton ever did. Cpatton joined BSID under one rule, that he would never comm a match.

    Throwing your cv into a chokepoint and leaving your base wide open + spending your starting res mostly on turrets is not a good strategy, infact its a horrible strategy, if anyone mentions cpatton being a good commander ever again I'm gonna fucking kill myself.

    Cpatton did the same thing over and over and over and over again. Especially his Isle strategy was horrible, vs a above average team, he can't push forward from the center of the hill and he loses all ground behind him, with that loses all map control and both entraces to the hill. Can hold a about 3 refs, maybe 4 if he's lucky, is stuck on the high ground where he can be sniped and once his comm is off the hill, there is no safe place for it. Infact, that spot is so clammed together, an arty could shell it in less than 10 seconds. This is specific to his "amazing" Isle strategy that is just one huge chunk of massive fail, but somehow I'm the only one that has ever won against him or notices these small things like map control?
    Did I mention that out of the 20+ games I've seen cpatton play, I've never seen him win?
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2007
  16. BoF

    BoF Member

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    Actually, the strategy has merit in it, 'specially against infantry rushes on an open map.

    For an example: Yesterday, 12 people out of the entire 21 on our team planned to rush with engi's and riflemen on Slaughter; I was focusing on walling the north bridge. So I go north and they go south. Of course by the time they reach the middle check point on the southern bridge, the NF CV comes out of effing nowhere and runs 'em down. What I see to the right of my screen are 4 confirmed road kills in succession, along with 2 headshots; And I'm sitting there laughing my arse off as the more vocal players of my team spews out obscenities and "Oh my gawds!" at this new twist.:D Then the rest of the story ends with a pair of engi's trying to wall in the NF CV since it was stuck, but it got away. Then the BE team decides to become a bunch of griefers since they didn't like the map and jump off the bridges, depleting our team of our precious tickets...:confused:

    Now that was CPatton inspired tactics to me.
     
  17. dizzyone

    dizzyone I've been drinking, heavily

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    "The strategy has merit in it" Then you go on to talk about the most random instance of a game ever, which has no relationship to what Cpatton does and the term "strategy" what so ever?

    If driving over people at the start of a map and nearly getting wall'd is what you call a strategy, I would like to refer to the 2nd paragraph in my last reply, because you're just spitting nonsense.

    Also: Slaughtered is not an open map.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2007
  18. Shinzon

    Shinzon Member

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    I think what he meant is that his tactic resulted in more sane offspring of that same tactic
     
  19. dizzyone

    dizzyone I've been drinking, heavily

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    The cv has wheels, he didn't invent driving around.
     
  20. Trid3nt

    Trid3nt Member

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    prove it.
     

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