The Case for Mark II's.

Discussion in 'Game Play' started by Comand'zorz' Asz, Apr 1, 2010.

  1. Empty

    Empty Member

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    The only reason weapon stacks got axed was triple standard MG, which could have been fixed differently without removing all the fun designs
     
  2. Foxy

    Foxy I lied, def a Forum Troll

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    Yeah; I know.

    I don't know why people bothered with triple though, double killed in the same number of shots.
     
  3. Beerdude26

    Beerdude26 OnThink(){ IsDownYet(); }

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    You always need more dakka
     
  4. pickled_heretic

    pickled_heretic Member

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    simply untrue.

    40 x 2 = 80 damage (2 shot kill)

    40 x 3 = 120 damage (instant kill)
     
  5. Foxy

    Foxy I lied, def a Forum Troll

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    Not from the values I saw, or the hits I took.

    30 x 2 = 60 (2 shot)
    30 x 3= 90 (Still 2 shot)
     
  6. pickled_heretic

    pickled_heretic Member

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    vehicle_weapons.txt says otherwise
     
  7. dizzyone

    dizzyone I've been drinking, heavily

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    Not true.

    The reason it was removed was because it adds additional factors to balance. You also have triple cannons on heavies and triple mls, and on nf heavy its 5*mls. You have to keep in mind that this becomes impossible to account for with all the balance options, as well as that the current balance needs more weapons to make full use of the revised weight system of 1.08. Which would become practically impossible with stacks of 1 slot weaponry.

    The idea was that instead of stacking you could have different weapons to make these options available without making the balance exponentially harder to do.

    I know this because it is part of my Killing The Fun Suggestion Streak TM. Although I can't take credit for implementing as Moo did that. (or perhaps someone else, but I believe moo did it).

    I still stand behind the fact that somewhere along the line changes like these had to be made, and it only adds more functionality while simplifying gameplay and balance. You might have noticed that some tanks allow 2 of a certain type, you can change the amount a tank is allowed to have per slot type, either in the scripts or in the code (don't remember exactly).


    After this feature was implemented, more stuff got researched; the opposite was a symptom of 1 slot stacks being overpowered, compared to the cost of researching new weaponry (and their effectiveness).


    MKII's were only a test that dragged on for far too long. That's why there are no changes to the model, as well as that it is part of Upgraded Chassis research.
    The full idea was to have it alongside MKII equivalants for med and heavy tank. They wouldn't all necessary have more slots, the difference between standard and MKII chassis could be any possible tankproperty (weight, armor, speed, player seat, weapon types, spawn capability etc). It was all part of the new research tree that I posted somewhere but never tested, as well as with the new weapons. None of these happened and its fair to say that without a complete new design the MKII's don't fit in.

    I'd also like to comment on what Aquillion said, that MKII's didn't fix the LT's being obsolete in higher tiers. The talk that made me want to make the Chassis variations was a 4 hour long discussion with Krenzo, that I had a few months before 1.08 went into forum testing. Back then the whole idea of LT's becoming obsolete wasn't as evident. As the changes that caused this weren't even complete: It's superior manouvrability traded in for a more stable ride, and the weak back armor of Meds and heavies (2 plates max). Along with the weight changes that also effected light tanks. So this was definitely not one of the reasons MKII's were born, they were nothing more than variations on existing chassis. The implementation as you see it now, as I've said a few lines above, as well as countless other times on this forum, was just a test. You can hate it for being a public test, but that's a different discussion.

    All in all, I think that it's a completely different environment Empiresmod is in now than it was when I was brainstorming on vehicle balance, back then, nobody cared. (proof is my PUBLIC forum tread: guide to exploiting presets in notepad, nobody noticed it until I started exploiting it in pubs with zomg 6 arty/nuke/hmg LT's and MONEY TANKS) I could count the people that cared about this stuff on 1 hand, there was practically no one to oppose anything I did with the scripts. Most of the opposition and feedback was reactionary to changes in 2.23, which in hindsight is a very long time after I was trying to come up with changes. The only person back then I really had discussions about tank balance with was FalconX, who, might I add, was an awesome dude which will be missed (by me mostly). I'm trying to say is that I love these kind of discussions and kinda wished there would've been more of these when I was active (and had a lot of spare time on my hands) :P
     
  8. Emp_Recruit

    Emp_Recruit Member

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    hey now i cared about exploiting :(
     
  9. dizzyone

    dizzyone I've been drinking, heavily

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  10. snuffaluffagus

    snuffaluffagus Member

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    Double Research

    Maybe it could be a bonus item for researching both med and heavies. Eh, eh?
     
  11. Demented

    Demented Member

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    Rename 'Upgraded Missile Launcher' to 'Heavy Missile Launcher'.
    Make a single-slot missile weapon named 'Upgraded Missile Launcher'.
    Have pwnage with Light Tanks. Be happy. Forget MKIIs.
     

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