So who has ever studied tanks, how they are built, their history, designs, etc.? Anyone who has studied tanks before knows that the driver would never shoot the turret at the same time, impossible. In a tank, the driver has no weapons, he just drives. Then the second position would have the main turret/ML and a third position would have the MG, or vice versa with the ML and MG. That, or have it Driver-Cannon-ML-MG for the BE APC, for example. I mean do you ever look at the guy looking out of the turret and ask: what is the point? Better yet: why is he looking out from where the turret fires, and not firing?
It wouldn't be any fun - or - it wouldn't be as much fun, if we were required to have a second infantry unit ride along in order to make the vehicle useful. By the way, this has already been suggested by FN198 (4-5 days ago, depending on time zone right now): http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=9818
How can having a driver, gunner and machine gunner not be fun. If you played Red Orchestra, alot of teamworks goes into that. But I agree that Empires is too arcade for it.
Red Orchestra != Empires. (Although I did play it long ago.) In Empires, it wouldn't be very practical.
I've done multiple tank manning in armed assault. As a gunner, I yell at the driver for not driving as I instruct. As driver, I yell at the gunner for not shooting people fast enough. As commander, I yell at both driver and gunner for being complete fucktards while I shoot people with my coaxial machinegun. There are many ways it can not be fun, there are more ways it can not be fun than it can be fun, the only time I will use vehicles in armed assault is if the AI is doing the gunning and the commanding and I'm driving, because then all I have to do is drive with WASD and use the mouse to tell the gunner what to target, it's like playing a top down isometric adventure game because I use the command view (which puts you some distance in the air above the tank) except unlike top down isometric adventure games I'm a tank, not a guy with an axe, but it is still essentially me doing all the controlling, I'm just doing it differently to how it normally works, except for the odd occasion when the AI can take over, such as when there are lots of infantry, I just tell him to shoot one and switch to MG and then he goes and kills all of them for me, also the commander just sits and shoots at random people. So I'd say my experience of multi-player main battle tanks is a bad one, the only time I do like to have multiple players is when they're the computer, and one of them does only what I say, while the other is essentially just a machinegun turret welded onto the roof. It DOES work when the other players are not taking a pivotal role in tank operation, for example when there are lots of secondary seats each controlling a small portion of the firepower, eg a leviathan or goliath. It also works when the second player is optional, eg a top gunner, but it doesn't work when you have one player driving, one player doing all the gunning, and one player pissing about with the top gun while the other two are killing one another.
Having a driver and a gunner is already prepared. But because of the engine limitation it is not possible. Maybe one of the devs can give more details.
I don't think this mod is called "Tank simulator" there is allready enough realism in this mod regarding tanks
it would be nice to have this in "some" form in the game, but not on a general level because this game is built on the "arcade" that vehicles give
I heard, (don't remember which thread it was), that in Red Orchestra, people drove the tanks alone, switching between the driving seat and shooting seat all the time, just because it was boring/a pain in the ass to drive as 2.
Quoted for truth, you get flamed for getting into a tank with another person! In public games the only good tank drivers always go out alone, drive into the only place on the map that is good (due to a wall as cover) and just sit there and shoot until they get killed. It takes forever to learn how to handle a tank since you often die to one enemy shot from afar the map. It's an absolutely lame and horrible way to do tanks, that is more suited to single player simulation game types. The only reason Red Orchestra does it is because it's SELLING argument is realism. Some of the groundwork is in the mod but there is mainly a big technical problem with implementing it. If it was to be implemented the tank driver ("owner" of the tank) will build a tank and assign certain weapons to the passenger. So he could for example assign a MG to the passenger or assign the nuke launcher to him. The exact way it's going to work is not known to me or prolly anyone on the current team. (e.g. can the passenger control an own turret on the side of the tank or whatever)
For empires I could imagine this for the heavy tank MKII. 1 turret with canon (NF 1x, BE 2x) 1 turret with ML (NF 2x, BE 1x) and MG Tank driver can only control one turret. The other turret is controlled by passenger. Tank will have 8 plates at every side and max weight is increased. Heat capacity is also increased to 150%. And of course tank will be more expensive than a normal heavy tank. But I can predict that we will only have this if we find someone how will do the new tank models.
i could even see this for heavy mk1, driver controls driving and 1 side of the weapons (cannon/missile/mg) other passenger something else etc
I might consent if we added an extra turret or something (pos2 gets to man a MG instead of their own weapon?) but disjointing driver and gunner in general is a poor idea for empires.
heavies for nf have 1 turret but 2 empty turret slots, be heavies have 1 turret but some empty turret slot on the chassis (http://www.empiresmod.com/media/imp_heavyTank_aug.jpg) or are those to crawl into as people?
The old Half-Life engine allowed for cannon or machinegun turrets at fixed locations on the map. I think it's even possible in CS:Source (see the piratewars map, which implements it crudely). I don't question the argument that separate drivers and gunners wouldn't work, but I'm intrigued as to why / whether even hatch-mounted MGs are impossible.
Giving the option of 2-man tank would be great, but I don't think it should be forced. For example, being able to give the 2nd guy in my tank an MG for killing infantry would be a great utilization of this idea.
Just have the MG have a "Infantry" selectable box when you are assigning weapons, and then, when someone gets in the tank, bobs your uncle Of course, you'd need to assign the MG to a different control group - e.g. 1st group - CN & ML, 2nd group - CN & MG...but you should be doing that anyway.
