Squad Rev Stuff

Discussion in 'Bug Reports' started by Metal Smith, Jul 8, 2014.

  1. Metal Smith

    Metal Smith Member

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    Someone wanted me to mention that squad revs are putting people inside of walls and such on district, which also happens to contain a cap zone. It also happens to allow you to press ctrl to bump yourself on top of that building, at which point you can shoot down into the map while being impervious to enemies.

    Not sure what their problem was...
     
  2. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    inb4 "the problem was they were playing district"

    My uneducated guess is that it's the revive "spawn" placement detection going derp and thinking inside a wall is okay.
     
  3. Reznov

    Reznov Member

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    I think the problem is that revive locations of squad members are set to a specific formation. From my memory it is something like this:

    * = represents revived location of teammates.
    + = represents squad leader.

    ___*__+__*
    *___________*

    That could cause the right most player to easily pass a wall if the wall or any other object isn't obstructing their revive locations.

    Edit: I think most maps have voids (cannot move inside of it) behind any wall if I remember correctly. Usually you get stuck inside of it but when any upward space is available, it sends you all the way up. This happens also when you push the NF CV towards the wall in emp_crossroads and you try to jump between the CV and the wall.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2014
  4. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    maybe there is no void there? that can easily happen if you just put a skybox around everything ...
     
  5. LordDz_2

    LordDz_2 Strange things happens here

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    You shouldn't put a skybox around everything, that's bad mapping.
     
  6. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    shouldnt, wouldnt, empires ...
     
  7. Metal Smith

    Metal Smith Member

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    Bigger issue is that squad revive can't handle spawning people where space is not available for the standard respawn patter. It just ends up putting you in the physical space if necessary, regardless of whether other objects exist there or not.
     
  8. Varbles

    Varbles Simply Maptastic. Staff Member

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    its a common problem of not knowing how BSP works while making maps where you should really understand how BSP works.
     
  9. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    thanks to mortars districts sky is quite high, i wouldnt wonder if there is skybox where there doesnt need to be. not all rooftop are nodrawn either (not that it would effect this). there is a difference between your ideals and reality ...

    this has nothing to do with me understanding bsp or not, i didnt create distrcit ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2014
  10. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    Since players no longer collide (<3 Cundahlz), could we just squad rev players on top of the engy?

    That would fix the problem entirely, no?
     
  11. Metal Smith

    Metal Smith Member

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    That's up to the devs. The solutions are either do nothing, Change squad revive, or edit the capture brush in district so that flags cannot be capped from inside solid blocks.
     
  12. Candles

    Candles CAPTAIN CANDLES, DUN DUN DUN, DUN DUN DUN DUN.

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    Actually, when I read the thread, that's the first idea that came to mind.

    The question then for me becomes if the the spawning in a circle is only because of hard collisions causing obvious problems, or if it was partially done to balance the ability.

    Keep in mind, there're a lot more places you'd be able to use squad revive in if it was changed this way.
     
  13. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    Quite frankly the problem here is that you are revived prone. Prone in itself is really badly implemented and is/was glitchy as all fuck.
    Just make squad rev revive in standing position and with frozen feet for a second. Teammates take alot less space now and you can fit them as you wish. Same effect, less shit.
     
  14. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    That's a good point.

    However, it's a shitty & frustrating way to balance the ability if it's true.

    Nah, there's a certain intuitive beauty when you reuse an existing mechanic to serve a new purpose without requiring reteaching. It's like how sticky stuns use the heat bar to communicate that a tank is helpless instead of another redundant way.
     
  15. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

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    Ray trace from reviver's point at kneeling height to random 30° flat horizontal arc forward (or 360° if squad revive).
    • Fail: Hit something too close(wall ect.), too low, or possible spawn point is too small? Attempt another trace up to 3 or so times and then give up (perhaps more attempts for squad revive).
    • Success: Spawn the new prone player at kneeling height and have him fall down. This helps avoid them sticking in things.
    Also... for the love of god and candles... make a minimum NO rev zone around the player giving a revive... it fucking sucks to have the target revive under you.
     
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2014
  16. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    What the fuck does your response have in common with my post? I suggested a change of stance. Not a new mechanic whatsoever. What fucking reteaching?
     
  17. ImSpartacus

    ImSpartacus nerf spec plz

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    You need to explain to players why they are frozen to the ground standing for a second or two.

    When they start prone, there's no such thing that must be taught to the player.
     
  18. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Make a little animation thing where they phase in or something, or a fancier crouch to standing animation. Course that is work.

    I know I would get annoyed by being frozen for a second for what felt like no reason. But it would be better than that prone position. Only problem though is that is mostly when you have revive engys running forward spamming the squad rev button. When they do it in cover behind waist high walls it would be better to be in that prone position.

    Though I don't think this was a discussion about the cons and benefits of changing the stance when they spawn in, it was about trying to fix the problem of people getting stuck in walls because of how the hit box works in that prone position. So I guess ignore that second paragraph.
     
  19. Metal Smith

    Metal Smith Member

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    Candles, I would suggest possibly just editing the capture brush to only be on one corridor in those buildings, like theoutside wall facing the ally. A similar fix can be used on any map with this issue.

    Then kill brushes both beneath the lowest displacements, but above theskybox under the map, should take care of any easily abusable methods of using the iffy spawn point selection mechanics for squad revive. I'm pretty sure canyon already has the kill brush, as I've been spawned on the ramp to the NF repair pad but under the map, and it killed me there.

    The problem with the ray trace is that it only checks for a distance from you to any given spot on the ground that is visible and far enough away, and at an apropriate slope. a solution would be to have the respawn mechanic for squad rev to a placement test similar to buildings, and give the check to a blank box that is large enough to fit the infantry proned at the maximum displacement possible from 0, so similar to the check for engineer turret placement.

    If a turret can be placed, then a person can be revived to that point. This would allow you to reuse the placement check code from buildings, and possibly their colision box size, to determine if a player would fit.
     

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