[Split] Remove Heat To Target from vehicle weapons

Discussion was split from http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=12418 since I kinda hijacked it. For the uninformed, Heat To Target is a scriptable value in vehicle scripts that gives the target tank heat. This is used in Plasma and Nukes specifically.

Better idea: Get rid of Heat to Target. Make it so that the only thing that will effect the heat of your tank is how YOU drive it.

 

interesting idea, i do agree if its your own fault, things that punish you are acceptable

 

This is worse.
Rather have my sticky-stuns and shit than "oh your gun is so badly built that it overheats after 3 regular shots".

 

Sticky stun excluded from the no-HTT rule.

What I mean is that Plasma and Nukes overheat other tanks. maybe give plasma the bio effect with DOT

 

yea, seems cool to concider

 

A rule of thumb I've heard of to tell if a game-play mechanic is not fun for the player is if it removes control from the player. HTT (other than stickies) removes control from the player by locking up their tank, and is therefore unfun. (And before you suggest dodging tank weapons, I ask how you expect to dodge the hit-scan plasma mg)

 

Yeah, that's the best idea.. Nukes should just absolutely destroy shit instead of over heat tanks and basically since the lay out is NF=Missles BE=Cannons It would be best if plasma became basically a BE bio weapon. Maybe better on people then tanks.. Would need lots of balance as far as max ammo and reload rate though.

 

If making HIT missiles back into nukes happens, we need to make them more of a burden to tanks carrying them (something to do now, probably by raising its weight and cutting the magazine size down).

 

Split to stop thread hijacking...my bad

 

Well whaddya know, two years of patiently suggesting PLASMA SHOULD SET PEOPLE AND OTHER THINGS ON FIRE actually had an effect. :D I would suggest a short, powerful DoT effect as opposed to bio's long last effect to differentiate it from its biological counterpart.

I would also suggest nukes use a high physics push value as their gimmick, which would allow them to disrupt tanks without causing the current frustration of being overheated. Pushing stuff around would make them considerably more fun to play with, and make nukes seem as powerful as their particle effect suggest.

Nukes would still benefit from their damage radius being decreased slightly to make them less frustrating to fight against for infantry.

It would be nice if nukes were renamed, from HIT (what is a thermobaric weapon doing in physics under nuclear fission, seriously) back to Nuke, or perhaps Micronuke to get across the idea that this won't devastate vast tracts of land when used.

 

So, Heat is a very useful mechanic to prevent constant and very annoying cannon/missile/machinegun spam. Heat allows tanks to hold 3+ weapons and only fire a few of them at a time, and stop them from being wtfpwnmobiles. That being said, it is under YOUR control. YOU, the driver, manage YOUR heat, You may push your tank to overheating to get that kill, but you suffer the consequences for overheating (usually dieing in a fireball). In this capacity, Heat is an amazing mechanic. It adds to the overall strategy of driving your tank.

Heat to Target, however, ruins this strategy. Heat is no longer a function of your driving capabilities, it is the other tank shutting you down. Why not kill them? Why shut them down? A stationary tank that can't shoot is no better than a dead tank.

So, focus the HTT weapons on killing the other tank in creative ways. Make Heat not a weapon for the other person to use, but a limiter for your ability, pushable, but a limit.

 

I was throwing out an idea to make plasma useful after it's main role would be removed. I don't mind the 'OMG SET PEOPLE ON FIRE' effect, as long as it's not overpowered.

 

Heat to target is gay. Remove.

 

I agree with Trickster.

Bad for gameplay and counter intuitive. I've never heard of a tank over-heating like that in real life from gun-fire, it means that it's another piece of info new people have to learn and get used to. (We should be aiming for gaming that is intuitive, easy to learn/pickup and therefore fun.)

 

God yes. Here is random copypastas about my suggestion for plasma. More generally heat is fucking retarded as is. Slows tank combat down and unepics battles. Engines could easily be balanced by weight and speed which makes 2000x more sense anyways.

random copy pasta beings:

Heres the thing. Its no fun. Overpowered or not when you get into a tank fight with plasma it just ends up being this stupid thing where you both sit there red staring at each other waiting for 1 little bar to go down so you can shoot each other again. Why do most tank war games end up saying no plasma mg? Because its not fun. I mean yeah Blah Blah Blah from an RTS perspective it could be balanced but its not fun for tanks on the ground.

Tank combat should be fluid fast and fun. Not sitting around immobilized unable to fire. I'm all for more variation but not at the expensive of fun.

I wouldn't mind seeing plasmas heat being replaced with a burn. Almost all its damage coming from this burning effect. That way it would work good in conjunction with another weapons, every 5-10 seconds or so you try and hit with plasma to get a burn started(burning wouldn't stack) then you switch to missiles and hit him with those then back to plasma, exetera. However I would like to see the burn to be over a time period of 5-10 seconds or less whereas bio is 20 or 60 seconds. It could be haxed in just using the bio code as well.

DPS on UML is higher than rails. If I could take a cannon that dealt burn damage and only required me to fire it every 5-10 seconds and let me focus on aiming UML I would take it on a heartbeat. Bio's effects are 20 seconds for mg and 60 for missile. I'm talking more in the 10 second range. Heat cost of like 40 and a fire cycle time of two. DPS from burn of maybe 20, dunno would have to test these are just random numbers I pulled out my ass. Its heat cost per second assuming you only fire it once every 8 seconds works out to be like 5 heat per second which is considerably below HE. But if you want to start using it against infantry and stuff you would be sacrificing a lot of heat and it wouldn't be good against turrets and buildings (ie a very low base damage)

Also it would provide some later-game research and teamwork opportunities. Researching it after a primary cannon so 1-2 people can get it and use it to apply DOT to all the enemy tanks while the rest use the other cannons. DMG can be scaled so 1v1 it is worse than HE/Ranged/Rails but in a 3v3 situation with the DOT application comes out on top.

It makes sense from the plasma perspective, its hot, it burns shit. And it can be done with minimal coding by copypasta bio effects.

 

Heat to target should still apply with infantry weapons.

 

DoT on infantry should increase with infantry velocity. DoT on infantry should decrease with stopping, proning and unproning repeatedly.

 

That is annoying and not the point of the thread

 

As long as it doesn't fuck up aim.

I agree with Omneh on a short (5second) non-stackable powerful DoT. I also agree that the HTT is quite gay. -