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Discussion in 'General' started by Empires Forum Bot, Nov 30, 2015.

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  1. Empires Forum Bot

    Empires Forum Bot Member

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    Apr 9, 2018 at 6:12 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: @vicki you didn't say it, but the implication that there is nothing to do is pretty clear to me
    Apr 9, 2018 at 6:13 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: since that isn't actually the case, i'd very much like to hear what you'd do with such players
    Apr 9, 2018 at 6:14 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: @Security forcing a person to play through the tutorial before joining multiplayer would already be a step in this direction, and that thing is right there already
    Apr 9, 2018 at 6:59 AM - Ranger: its an old bad game =(
    Apr 9, 2018 at 7:00 AM - Ranger: it's not a legendary old classic multiplayer either.
    Apr 9, 2018 at 11:04 AM - bunnyhopper: " forcing a person to play through the tutorial" lol...great direction to go in to put that final nail in the coffin.
    Apr 9, 2018 at 12:15 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: regulars won't care, newbies will benefit
    Apr 9, 2018 at 1:03 PM - vipervicki: @DDD I already did it for over 5 years, don't think I need to explain further. The point is it is not effective.
    Apr 9, 2018 at 1:12 PM - vipervicki: there are thigns inherently wrong with empires and the communtiy since servers don't stick around and most of the new players leave. I don't know for sure but I think VIPER was the longest running empires mod server to date. I would still have kept if the drama and some players didnt make it so unbearable on a daily basis.
    Apr 9, 2018 at 1:15 PM - vipervicki: and its usually the same reason that most of the other servers have shut down, drama and some players.
    Apr 9, 2018 at 1:18 PM - vipervicki: and why new players leave, stacking, and some players who berate them, plus the learning curve.
    Apr 9, 2018 at 1:38 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: so what do you suggest should be done about it?
    Apr 9, 2018 at 2:45 PM - A-z-K: The player base did get unbearably whiny. If there was a problem with a server or they didn't like the map cycle it got personal real quickly. Once population dropped to single server numbers lot's of people thought they were doing the world a favor by playing
    Apr 9, 2018 at 2:54 PM - A-z-K: I mean people always complained about map cycles so whatever. But it got real boring after years, as everything does. It's like toxicity in Overwatch - it'll always be there ensured by the game mechanics but with Empires it can be cranked up to 11
    Apr 9, 2018 at 10:19 PM - complete_: lol forcing people to go past a barrier to play a 12 year old game lmao dying laughing. ddd the original thing you posted was correct you didnt have to ruin your good will agreeing with security
    Apr 9, 2018 at 10:21 PM - complete_: you punish the people who act up and it fosters a culture of being nice. if you let people act up everyone will be an asshole. everyone who doesnt want that shit will leave. empires doesnt make mean players, its always been the enforcement
    Apr 9, 2018 at 10:24 PM - complete_: not to get too "political" but its always been a bit obvious to me why reddit leans a certain way and it has to do with how those original admins enforced their rules
    Apr 9, 2018 at 10:31 PM - Xyaminou: @azk aren't you in my steam group? if you are you should know when and if people are playing.
    Apr 9, 2018 at 10:32 PM - Xyaminou: https://steamcommunity.com/groups/hardcoreempires
    Apr 9, 2018 at 10:34 PM - vipervicki: there is no way I have found during VIPER's years of stopping someone from being an asshole. My solution is and I have told you and other devs this DDD is ban toxic people from forums and all servers. Trcikster and I had an agreement after awhile when I brought epic in on my HLstats if I banned someone on viper they got banned on epic
    Apr 9, 2018 at 10:34 PM - vipervicki: abd visa versa (only 2 servers people played on at ) That was more effective.
    Apr 9, 2018 at 10:34 PM - vipervicki: and*
    Apr 9, 2018 at 10:35 PM - vipervicki: not perfect but more effective
    Apr 9, 2018 at 10:37 PM - vipervicki: doesnt need to be a perma ban but long enough to have an effect on them.
    Apr 9, 2018 at 10:39 PM - vipervicki: but now it doesnt really matter, the damage has already been done. Thats why it is how it is at this point
    Apr 10, 2018 at 12:10 AM - Sgt.Security: @lamer It's a fun barrier we are talking about, not "Wait 24 hours to download", not sure how you mixed them. Also the only way to save Empires is to make it no longer a 12 years old game.
    Apr 10, 2018 at 12:13 AM - Sgt.Security: Also, as the "police" myself for years, you are truly laughing my ass off that it even ran away just to kill itself, IF you think a ban here and there solves anything.
    Apr 10, 2018 at 12:16 AM - Sgt.Security: Nope not in my experience, not in a lot people's experience as well. If it did solve anything we wouldn't be discussing this shit at all.
    Apr 10, 2018 at 12:18 AM - Sgt.Security: It's like IRL you think putting people in jail would solve everything. Then why are criminal issues still being discussed here and there? Hell, we have a jail that's made of foam.
    Apr 10, 2018 at 12:20 AM - Sgt.Security: And I am merely suggesting that we make the jail a little more solid that you don't just walk through them and come back. Derp.
    Apr 10, 2018 at 12:21 AM - Sgt.Security: As a bonus, actually, singleplayer Empires would be fabulous anyway.
    Apr 10, 2018 at 12:32 AM - complete_: people were always given leeway to be rude to one another. cussing each other out for being playing wrong, researching the wrong thing. It wasn't punished ever. Only griefing and racism (i mean i would say those were seldom punished aswell but thats a personal opinion)
    Apr 10, 2018 at 12:34 AM - complete_: jails dont work dude. its a time out. a longer or more fortified timeout out doesnt work. the only thing you can do to lower crime rates is to fix society and the overarching culture
    Apr 10, 2018 at 12:36 AM - complete_: people will be dicks, but guess what: they just get banned when they act up, and its quickly forgotten. people get free reign to comment on twitch chat as destroyer said, and the most that happens is spam links (which are quickly forgotten). almost never see racism
    Apr 10, 2018 at 3:46 AM - A-z-K: Banning people is nothing like jail. Except that in both situations it makes playing Empires slightly more difficult.
    Apr 10, 2018 at 3:55 AM - A-z-K: I always thought a simple link to a couple of decent 2 minute videos would be way better than a tutorial. Just copy what NS2 did. Empires isn't really that complicated besides the stupid stuff like swapping squad lead to stack up powers.
    Apr 10, 2018 at 4:52 AM - complete_: a jail exists to remove problem people from society as punishment in hopes of rehabilitation. what is banning for again?
    Apr 10, 2018 at 4:56 AM - vipervicki: in jail most prisoners dont escape unlike banning where players can escape their bans easily.
    Apr 10, 2018 at 4:58 AM - vipervicki: and I have never seen a ban rehabilitate anyone
    Apr 10, 2018 at 4:59 AM - vipervicki: if it did we would not be having this discussion
     
  2. Empires Forum Bot

    Empires Forum Bot Member

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    Apr 10, 2018 7:58 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: we are only having it because you believe banning repeat offenders somehow doesn't fix the problem
    Apr 10, 2018 7:58 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: it doesn't have to be a permanent fix to the problem that can't be circumvented
    Apr 10, 2018 7:59 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: it just needs to be annoying enough for the problem person to give up and stop coming back
    Apr 10, 2018 8:00 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: and no matter how you slice it, banning someone is faster and easier than swapping steam accounts
    Apr 10, 2018 10:32 AM - A-z-K: A ban on a free mod is more akin to taking away a child's x-box controller. Except he has a PS4 and a tablet and a cell phone. And 10 more X box controllers.
    Apr 10, 2018 10:35 AM - A-z-K: Maybe there should be a jail in Empires. Feature request. All the banned guys have to go to the jail Mao where they will be forced to 9 mine a circa-2011 NF CV out of the water 100 times before they are forgiven.
    Apr 10, 2018 10:36 AM - A-z-K: And there is no scout class.
    Apr 10, 2018 10:55 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: that's okay, take away that controller, and if the kid keeps coming back, the next, and the next, and so on
    Apr 10, 2018 10:55 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: don't let the kid ruin the family meeting because of its bad upbringing
    Apr 10, 2018 12:36 PM - A-z-K: Hmm... I think maybe the use of metaphors is less than useful here.
    Apr 10, 2018 12:38 PM - A-z-K: Unless they are car analogies. Everyone loves a good car analogy. Empires is the road, admins are the drivers, devs are mechanics, vets are the engine and newbies are the gas. Discuss (and by discuss I mean argue so I have something to reach whilst I eat lunch)
    Apr 10, 2018 4:14 PM - vipervicki: DDD unless one is in the postion to see what goes on in servers behind the scenes one can't realize how weak a ban is as punishment. Banning across all paltforms, servers and forums etc is more effective but not close to perfect. but like I already said, its too little, and too late to worry about it now, the damage on all levels seems irreparable at this point..
    Apr 10, 2018 4:15 PM - vipervicki: empires servers*
    Apr 10, 2018 4:18 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: weak how?
    Apr 10, 2018 4:20 PM - vipervicki: and in reference to your statement about the punishment being annoying what I did at times on VIPER, not often, when banned players kept coming over and over I messed with them instead of banning again for the 10th time. I would teleport them out of the map, burn them etc etc. I figured if they were not respecting the ban I didnt need to respect their time in my server when they were supposed to
    Apr 10, 2018 4:20 PM - vipervicki: be banned
    Apr 10, 2018 4:21 PM - vipervicki: weak menaing it doesnt stop a player from coming tight back into the server
    Apr 10, 2018 4:22 PM - vipervicki: right*
    Apr 10, 2018 4:24 PM - vipervicki: you can only ban a player with their steam id or ip or both..so many players know how to change both within minutes to get back into the server.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:29 PM - Major Cleve Cutler: I gave thought about how people circumvent the Anti-Cheat system and the solutions for some time. I say the way to ban people is to ban them by their internet IP address and if the person was to use a form of a proxy (I doubt they could. A bit impossible for Steam), the VAC system would not allow the player to play.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:32 PM - Major Cleve Cutler: Granted, the way that a person could bypass this would be to use a friend's computer, or to buy a different ISP service. But would a normal person have the time and attention span to do that? Unlikely, unless they play World of Warcraft.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:33 PM - vipervicki: changing ip for many can be jsut logging off anf logging back on their device, and we have caught many using vpns and no one got vac banned
    Apr 10, 2018 4:33 PM - Major Cleve Cutler: Oh.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:33 PM - Major Cleve Cutler: Well, I'm not Bill
    Apr 10, 2018 4:34 PM - vipervicki: yah vps are easily detected if a server owner knows what to do
    Apr 10, 2018 4:34 PM - Candles: VAC doesn't care about your IP address, it just looks for known cheats
    Apr 10, 2018 4:34 PM - vipervicki: vpns*
    Apr 10, 2018 4:34 PM - vipervicki: right candles
    Apr 10, 2018 4:34 PM - Major Cleve Cutler: Well, I'm not Bill Bloody Gates, so what do I know.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:34 PM - Candles: Also, VAC has been broken on Empires since 2013.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:34 PM - vipervicki: and hiya good to see you again you have been missed
    Apr 10, 2018 4:35 PM - Candles: Good to see you too Vicki.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:35 PM - vipervicki: well we r vac secured now candles at least it says that
    Apr 10, 2018 4:35 PM - vipervicki: ty :)
    Apr 10, 2018 4:35 PM - Candles: Mmmm, they eventually managed to fix it?
    Apr 10, 2018 4:35 PM - vipervicki: yup I beleive so a while ago
    Apr 10, 2018 4:36 PM - Candles: Well, I don't think it makes much of a difference one way or another. I played Empires with modified client .dlls to do some live testing several times and never got hit with VAC.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:36 PM - vipervicki: i know vac isnt muhc help
    Apr 10, 2018 4:36 PM - Candles: If that doesn't trigger something, I doubt much anything else would.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:37 PM - Major Cleve Cutler: Valve should really get strict with the anti-cheat system. But it would require coding a 14 year old hunk of useless data that doesn't ban people.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:37 PM - Candles: Valve has gotten a lot of shit from a lot of people who've been accidentally VAC banned.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:37 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: i already said why banning is viable a few times over the past few days, shoutbox archive essentially contains my response to that already
    Apr 10, 2018 4:37 PM - vipervicki: valve has proven time and time again they dont care about servers
    Apr 10, 2018 4:38 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: the average player doesn't care about the behind-the-scenes, if a guy is not disrupting their play, then it's all good
    Apr 10, 2018 4:38 PM - Candles: To be fair, I think it's Source modding they don't particularly care about anymore.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:38 PM - Candles: (>implying they ever cared.)
    Apr 10, 2018 4:38 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: and a couple taps every now and then ensure it as long as someone in charge is watching
    Apr 10, 2018 4:39 PM - Candles: Especially with engines like UE4 around, there's no real impetus for Valve to support modding for a 15-year-old engine.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:40 PM - vipervicki: ddd u dont seem to get it so who cares anymore theres no players one server wth minimal players, it jsut is not worth debating at this time.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:41 PM - Candles: Anyway, it's a shit solution, but constantly banning people I think is (was) the "best" way to do it, even if it's not a very "good" way.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:42 PM - vipervicki: candles back when viper and epic were getting ddosed non stop by pcwizdan and slayer...
    Apr 10, 2018 4:42 PM - Candles: Because the only good solution would be to have a massive shift in the player's behavior.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:42 PM - Candles: Yeah, ain't nothing would stop them.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:42 PM - vipervicki: we sent so muhc proof to valve and their isps
    Apr 10, 2018 4:42 PM - vipervicki: even the fbi of the internet division
    Apr 10, 2018 4:42 PM - vipervicki: no one did nothing
    Apr 10, 2018 4:43 PM - vipervicki: i agree 100% wiht you on this Candles:Because the only good solution would be to have a massive shift in the player's behavior.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:43 PM - Major Cleve Cutler: I feel I'm in Congress now, but for video games and servers. Just debates everywhere and nothing done.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:44 PM - vipervicki: i did my time dont need to do anymore :P
    Apr 10, 2018 4:44 PM - Candles: For what it's worth, prosecuting computer crime is incredibly difficult and the ISP's have no incentive to do anything about it.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:44 PM - vipervicki: its jsut sad becasue it is a fun game
    Apr 10, 2018 4:44 PM - Candles: But we're just beating a long-dead horse at this point.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:44 PM - vipervicki: even with all its bugs and quirks
    Apr 10, 2018 4:44 PM - vipervicki: yeah
    Apr 10, 2018 4:45 PM - vipervicki: although some complained i enjoyed spec too and thats why I always kept it open, we had some really fun moments in spec
    Apr 10, 2018 4:46 PM - vipervicki: I still have kareoke night candles lol that was a hoot
    Apr 10, 2018 4:46 PM - vipervicki: the audio I mean
    Apr 10, 2018 4:47 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: oh i'm pretty aware of the player counts thankyouverymuch, but since all that's left now is to discuss, i'm discussing
    Apr 10, 2018 4:47 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: ban rabble rousers until they get bored and leave. Works elsewhere, would work here.
    Apr 10, 2018 4:47 PM - vipervicki: ok but not me im done discussing
    Apr 10, 2018 4:48 PM - vipervicki: that topic
    Apr 10, 2018 4:49 PM - vipervicki: i lsot my bedroom phone..cant fid it anywhere grrr
    Apr 10, 2018 4:49 PM - vipervicki: find
    Apr 10, 2018 5:38 PM - A-z-K: The perfect end to empires. Discussing how to best prevent people playing empires. GG guise. I love you all.
    Apr 10, 2018 5:49 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: if this is your conclusion, i recommend a reading comprehension course
    Apr 10, 2018 6:10 PM - Sgt.Security: How to prevent "asshole" from playing the game.
    Apr 10, 2018 8:18 PM - A-z-K: Don't take it hard. I'm only kidding along the lines of some things never change.
    Apr 10, 2018 8:25 PM - A-z-K: Although it's a little disappointing nobody talks about aircraft anymore. Despite being a terrible idea. Pretty sure Empty had a fairly accurate calendar for cyclical discussion topics.
    Apr 10, 2018 9:06 PM - Ranger: So blimps when?
    Apr 10, 2018 9:10 PM - PwnedYoAss: You know, aircraft could work if the command vehicle was an aircraft.
    Apr 10, 2018 9:15 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: fix squad revive teleporting people across the map first, then i'm sold
    Apr 10, 2018 9:40 PM - vipervicki: LOL Secuirty if you can find the answer to that we can revive Empires.
    Apr 10, 2018 9:41 PM - vipervicki: heck I will even put VIPER back up ;)
    Apr 10, 2018 10:07 PM - MegaMLGgaming: *queue the bring back turbo threads*
    Apr 11, 2018 3:19 AM - complete_: lower cv health which would decrease the length of games
    Apr 11, 2018 3:24 AM - Misfire: In it's best days Empires was a good mix of short and long matches. Making map changes that made stronger or weaker CV's depending would be ok. I'm against making all matches 20 mins or less though. Seems to be a trend for this lately.
    Apr 11, 2018 3:29 AM - Misfire: I thought I posted a note yesterday about bans. I don't see it now so forgive me if I'm repeating myself....
    Apr 11, 2018 3:30 AM - Misfire: Empires bans don't work well for a number of reasons. Bans of the past have been as much or more a punishment to the server admin and players as to the person banned.
    Apr 11, 2018 3:31 AM - Misfire: Issue a ban... then endure bashings on the forums by them or their friend, DDOS on the server, game crashing scripts by alternate accounts, possible cyberstalking....
    Apr 11, 2018 3:37 AM - Misfire: DDD, we don't disagree with you, but no one wants a job comsuming hours a day with zero pay and limitless irratation.
    Apr 11, 2018 3:42 AM - Misfire: Perhaps working VACs and some of the recent game patches solve some of those old script issues. Can't really tell with the lack of players though.
    Apr 11, 2018 3:44 AM - Misfire: BTW, anyone else seeing a time out issue. Seems I'm logged out of the site after a couple of mins of inactivity. Need to look at my prefs perhaps
    Apr 11, 2018 4:10 AM - vipervicki: well said misfire exactly my points but you said it much better than me.
    Apr 11, 2018 4:13 AM - vipervicki: plus they are easy to evade
     
  3. Empires Forum Bot

    Empires Forum Bot Member

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    Apr 11, 2018 at 6:30 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: how are any of these things empires-specific, save for maybe the scripts which, as you said, may have been fixed by "recent" patches?
    Apr 11, 2018 at 1:11 PM - Misfire: It would be more fun for you to explain why they are not. If Empires specific then 95% of what all of us have typed in the past few days can be completly ignored and we'll just talk code commits.
    Apr 11, 2018 at 1:17 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: so essentially you disagree with how people of this kind are handled in other communities despite being essentially the same
    Apr 11, 2018 at 1:18 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: and i'm not looking for fun here, that ship has sailed a long time ago
    Apr 11, 2018 at 1:20 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: unless we consider satisfaction from addressing a problem fun. it is a broad term, after all
    Apr 11, 2018 at 5:37 PM - vipervicki: its empires specific in the fact thats its a small player base where more than an average percentage act like assholes and cause all these problems, it becomes a large part of running and adminning a server, it wasn't a now and then thing like when I ran other game servers that had a large playerbase they had much less drama and rule breakers comparitvely.
    Apr 11, 2018 at 5:40 PM - vipervicki: you can disagree all you want DDD the fact remains is this is a major part of why servers have shut down, EPic, VIPER, NUBS
    Apr 11, 2018 at 5:40 PM - vipervicki: ESB
    Apr 11, 2018 at 5:40 PM - vipervicki: Lizzy's
    Apr 11, 2018 at 5:40 PM - vipervicki: the list goes on
    Apr 11, 2018 at 5:44 PM - vipervicki: too many players make it unbearable in one way or another to want to keep spending your money on them or offer them a server.
    Apr 11, 2018 at 5:46 PM - vipervicki: unfortunately the good people suffer but thats always the case sadly.
    Apr 11, 2018 at 6:53 PM - A-z-K: Yeah I have to agree with Misfire. I got really burned out playing Empires mostly because I was expected to admin constantly. The difference I think with with Empires is that one guy exploiting can irrecoverably damage a match. So as an admin you have to be quite proactive and look for trouble.
    Apr 11, 2018 at 6:56 PM - A-z-K: I found myself just wanting to play, or command but needing to constantly interrupt to intervene in something. Often people losing their shit and being very demanding over something like a person 9-mining vehicles coming out of their own VF. So I would have to leave, make sure that was the case (because people often tried to get people banned on a half-truth or a lie) and by now my game is ruined
    Apr 11, 2018 at 6:58 PM - A-z-K: I took to telling people I won't admin, but that just made everyone mad at me, old and new. Then I started on Alt accounts where everyone mostly treats you like an idiot because they don't know your name. It's just another emergent behavior of the game. I wouldn't really blame the community so much.
    Apr 11, 2018 at 7:23 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: @vicki i never downplayed the effect of toxic communities on the psyche of an individual
    Apr 11, 2018 at 7:25 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: and i have seen a lot of different instances of people getting all sorts of affected by various undesirables, this is hardly news to me
    Apr 11, 2018 at 7:26 PM - Misfire: incorrect...... "so essentially you disagree with how people of this kind are handled in other communities"
    Apr 11, 2018 at 7:26 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: it doesn't change the approach against such people though
    Apr 11, 2018 at 7:27 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: @azk absolutely, being a mod/admin is a responsibility more than anything else, you sacrifice time and effort to help ensure other people's experience is good
    Apr 11, 2018 at 7:28 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: @Misfire care to explain it again, then?
    Apr 11, 2018 at 7:29 PM - A-z-K: Empires is just a griefers paradise isn't it. on a full server you can basically waste 64hours of other people's time by doing something that takes 2 minutes from a fresh account.
    Apr 11, 2018 at 7:30 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: which is why, on a full server, it's probably a good idea to have an admin spectate
    Apr 11, 2018 at 7:30 PM - A-z-K: If the community was big enough you would just implement white-listed community server like Epoch DayZ or whatever, but the incentive there is your progression and even if you wanted to grief you are going to start with an axe and an evil grin.
    Apr 11, 2018 at 7:31 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: 100%
    Apr 11, 2018 at 7:34 PM - A-z-K: Though you could probably setup a whitelist that accepted anyone so long as they had some paid for games in their steam library
    Apr 11, 2018 at 7:35 PM - A-z-K: Theoretically. I'm sure that there is an API or way to harvest the data about what is on an account. If it only has Empires installed then it's obviously an Alt account
    Apr 11, 2018 at 7:36 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: no more, not by default
    Apr 11, 2018 at 7:36 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: you have to manually change a setting on your profile to display your games now
    Apr 11, 2018 at 7:51 PM - A-z-K: Ahh well. At any rate, all that stuff only made people rage quit for a matter of hours usually.
    Apr 11, 2018 at 7:55 PM - A-z-K: But yeah, having ever vigilant admins you trust in spec constantly isn't really a solution for longevity I think. It worked about as well as it could for the longest time. Back in day there were usually admins in spec IIRC
    Apr 11, 2018 at 8:17 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: it was usually creeper or vicki and that's kinda it
    Apr 11, 2018 at 8:17 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: other folks would sit there sporadically
    Apr 11, 2018 at 9:09 PM - Lazybum: You know when creeper first popped up with nubs I was asked if I wanted admin, but said nah because of reasons azk listed. I just want to empires, not babysit others.
    Apr 11, 2018 at 9:10 PM - Lazybum: admining just feels like a hassle, sure some poeple are fine with it but it doesn't feel reasonable to ask someone to basically sit out and watch
    Apr 11, 2018 at 9:11 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: there's a lot that goes into being a mod/admin, frankly
    Apr 11, 2018 at 9:12 PM - Lazybum: yup, it's why i quit mod on this forum too. Sucked all the fun away when I kept seeing complaints for stupid shit
    Apr 11, 2018 at 9:17 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: i still love you though <#
    Apr 11, 2018 at 9:22 PM - vipervicki: owning/admming a server for empires back in the day was brutal, I say I am either made out of stone or I need a psychiatrist for doing it so long ;)
    Apr 11, 2018 at 9:24 PM - vipervicki: adminning*
    Apr 11, 2018 at 9:25 PM - vipervicki: and don't blame you one bit Lazybum for not wanting to admin.
    Apr 11, 2018 at 9:30 PM - vipervicki: my cell phone is giving me alerts sounds and I have no idea why I hate that
    Apr 11, 2018 at 9:31 PM - vipervicki: no new messages, no social media on my phone, removed them all. no new voicemail or new email..
    Apr 11, 2018 at 9:32 PM - vipervicki: 4 th alert in less than 1 minute wtf is it
    Apr 11, 2018 at 9:51 PM - Sgt.Security: Some sort of national emergency broadcast system? We have that here for earthquake and stuff.
    Apr 11, 2018 at 9:52 PM - vipervicki: yeah but that alert is uslaly ear shattering
    Apr 11, 2018 at 9:52 PM - vipervicki: usually
    Apr 11, 2018 at 9:52 PM - vipervicki: this is a little ding
    Apr 11, 2018 at 9:52 PM - vipervicki: i think it stopped
    Apr 11, 2018 at 10:47 PM - Ranger: its teh fbi
    Apr 11, 2018 at 10:57 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: your new agent is probably named howard and is really eager to start his job
    Apr 11, 2018 at 11:54 PM - A-z-K: Admin was definitely harder in Empires than anything else I've experinced. But it was always worth it because it was the best game.
    Apr 12, 2018 at 1:01 AM - complete_: saying badmin is akin to a racial slur
     
  4. Empires Forum Bot

    Empires Forum Bot Member

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    Apr 12, 2018 at 5:25 AM - A-z-K: that word hurt my poor feelings
    Apr 12, 2018 at 9:00 AM - Neoony: They discovered a hack for the alert...too expensive to fix
    Apr 12, 2018 at 10:08 AM - vipervicki: LOL Ranger
    Apr 12, 2018 at 10:10 AM - vipervicki: and I agree with your first sentence AZK. It was worth it up to a point then it wasn't worth it anymore.
    Apr 12, 2018 at 4:24 PM - Misfire: ubisoft making serious moves.... https:\\tinyurl.com\y7s8tpu4
    Apr 12, 2018 at 4:25 PM - Misfire: But then... paid staff, 25 million accounts...
    Apr 12, 2018 at 6:51 PM - vipervicki: good for them
    Apr 12, 2018 at 6:56 PM - vipervicki: one of the big problems in empires is when an admin would give a justified ban long or short, many times the admin would get attacked on forums, in the server, complaints would be messaged to the owner, the banned friends would lie for the banned player. There was very little respect for when some people were banned
    Apr 12, 2018 at 6:57 PM - vipervicki: banned player's friends*
    Apr 12, 2018 at 9:04 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: based on my experience in other places, that's how the cookie crumbles
    Apr 12, 2018 at 9:52 PM - Sgt.Security: Empires is a hot girl bending over and we live in a world where jails only have a 2 meter "high" wall surrounding them.
    Apr 12, 2018 at 9:54 PM - Sgt.Security: Certainly we can ask our unpaid, voluntary "police" to patrol more (hell, most people are just here to play games, even if they ARE admins), but it's not really the optimal solution.
    Apr 12, 2018 at 9:55 PM - Sgt.Security: Or, not the only solution.
    Apr 12, 2018 at 11:01 PM - vipervicki: DDD you keep trying to defend what has ruined games and shut down servers by saying its the same everywhere. well obviously its not the same everywhere since other games still have lots of players and lots of servers.
    Apr 12, 2018 at 11:02 PM - vipervicki: and Empires does not.
    Apr 12, 2018 at 11:07 PM - vipervicki: and the problem with not acknowledging what caused a big part of the game's and server's demise will not help resurrect it, if thats at all possible.
    Apr 12, 2018 at 11:07 PM - vipervicki: servers'
     
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    Apr 13, 2018 5:23 AM - Ranger: >LAST RESORT. >EMPIRES FORUM CHAT
    Apr 13, 2018 5:24 AM - Ranger: I NEED A COPY OF THE WITCHER BOOK "THE LAST WISH" WITH A HARDCOVER THAT DOESN'T COST 5000$ OR 1000$
    Apr 13, 2018 5:25 AM - Ranger: ^Important message above ^ notice the caps.
    Apr 13, 2018 6:10 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: @vicki did you just say that insisting on banning problem people is what caused people to stop playing empires?
    Apr 13, 2018 6:13 AM - Ranger: go back to sleep
    Apr 13, 2018 6:21 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: got class in 50 ish minutes, i kinda can't
    Apr 13, 2018 6:33 AM - Ranger: :veryangry:
    Apr 13, 2018 6:54 AM - Ranger: There is an ongoing investigation about the lost thread with unknown title which contained a very important posts which contained many 'murican GIF memes. The poster of said memes is currently believe to be either A-z-K or Lazubum.
    Apr 13, 2018 6:55 AM - Ranger: If you have any information regarding the disappearance of the post, please contact US Army Rangers.
    Apr 13, 2018 6:55 AM - Ranger:
    Apr 13, 2018 6:55 AM - Ranger: [​IMG]
    Apr 13, 2018 6:56 AM - Ranger: blob:https://imgur.com/e3c72a6f-3131-4a09-9b22-a168f583af6f
    Apr 13, 2018 6:56 AM - Ranger: wat. welp. i found that by accident and recalled that post. i wanted to add it to the collection
    Apr 13, 2018 6:59 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: check out of context IRC, it might have been spartacus posting them in reference to my remark about him talking sith mcgyver a lot
    Apr 13, 2018 7:02 AM - Ranger: Ah yes forgot to check that one. Must be it.
    Apr 13, 2018 8:45 AM - A-z-K: I have no idea.
    Apr 13, 2018 10:11 AM - vipervicki: LOl no thats not what I said DDD
    Apr 13, 2018 10:13 AM - vipervicki: Im sure what I said is clear especially since I echo Misfire, AZK and Security's feelings, so the same thigns have been said by numerous people, several times.
    Apr 13, 2018 12:16 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: except i can more or less agree with them, security in particular, yet what you're saying is quite different
    Apr 13, 2018 12:19 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: perhaps it's the more extreme approach you're presenting, outright saying it's not worth to ban people, while everyone else sees the merit but points out the multitude of issues that reduce the impact of said banning, everyone to a different extent
    Apr 13, 2018 12:20 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: to all of which i still say, the average user doesn't care as long as their gameplay experience is undisturbed
    Apr 13, 2018 12:20 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: and that experience will be disturbed as long as problem people are there to cause problems
    Apr 13, 2018 12:21 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: the best available solution is a relatively poor one and that has been demonstrated already, but you have to take what you can get in this respect
    Apr 13, 2018 12:22 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: ....or not, and let rabble reign supreme ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Apr 13, 2018 5:04 PM - Candles: I believe Vicki's point is that it's not worth it because of that multitude of issues.
    Apr 13, 2018 5:07 PM - Candles: And I do agree that Empires' community is particularly bad, what with the DDoSing. Sure, other games have DDoSers, but Empires tends to have only a few servers, which means DDoSing one of them disproportionately affects the game.
    Apr 13, 2018 5:08 PM - Candles: (Although that's a more historic than current problem now.)
    Apr 13, 2018 5:09 PM - Candles: But we can't just say that "Well you just ban them" because there're only so many decent admins and they have only so many hours.
    Apr 13, 2018 5:10 PM - Candles: For example, it was mentioned earlier that we just need an admin sitting in spec while there are games going on.
    Apr 13, 2018 5:11 PM - Candles: l fail to think of another game where the community is so bad as to make "have a person dedicated to keeping the players in line" is considered to be a necessary or viable option.
    Apr 13, 2018 5:23 PM - Candles: On further thought, Empires makes it particularly easy to grief without having any in-game punishment.
    Apr 13, 2018 5:26 PM - Candles: Flipping the CV, filling the VF with vehicles, spamming junk vehicles to waste resources, etc. The avenues for griefing in Empires are vast, but there's no automatic system for dealing with it.
    Apr 13, 2018 5:27 PM - Candles: For example, friendly fire is a mechanic in a lot of other games. Players can be punished automatically for friendly fire because it's easy to detect, which is why games can have friendly fire without griefing being a major concern.
    Apr 13, 2018 5:29 PM - Candles: Comparatively, it's hard to put anti-griefing systems into Empires because a lot of things that are used for griefing are also legitimate game mechanics.
    Apr 13, 2018 5:30 PM - Candles: That is to say, while I can't see friendly fire being used to positive ends in a game, I don't think anyone will contest that the ability to drive the CV is a bad thing, but that can be exploited to drive the CV into the water.
    Apr 13, 2018 5:42 PM - Candles: is a good* thing
    Apr 13, 2018 7:02 PM - Ranger: :veryangry:
    Apr 13, 2018 7:10 PM - A-z-K: Candles eloquated what I meant. An increasingly unruly playerbase didn't help but the fundamentals in Empires were as much to blame. Flip side of that being that when nobody was griefing it was the best shiz
    Apr 13, 2018 8:56 PM - vipervicki: I never once said don't ban so read arhcives to see what I did say. not going to repeat and ty Candles.
    Apr 13, 2018 10:48 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: you did however say that banning isn't worth it
    Apr 13, 2018 10:50 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: @Candles this is why, like arma and the like, human supervision is heavily required to ensure the game runs smoothly. It can be whitelists, it can be admins, it can be both, but it can't be the wild west
    Apr 13, 2018 10:53 PM - vipervicki: banning is not what I said is not worth it either,
    Apr 13, 2018 10:54 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: either that or address the problem points that lead to griefing, assuming it's possible to do while maintaining the gameplay as we know it
    Apr 13, 2018 10:54 PM - vipervicki: i listed many reasons why paying for a server is not worth it anymore i listed reasons why banning is not very effective..
    Apr 13, 2018 10:54 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: so what's not worth it, then?
    Apr 13, 2018 10:55 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: i never disputed paying for a server
    Apr 13, 2018 10:55 PM - vipervicki: read back at my chat and you will see
    Apr 13, 2018 10:55 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: and, hell, i acknowledged low ban effectiveness at the very beginning of this discussion
    Apr 13, 2018 10:57 PM - vipervicki: lol maybe its a language problem we have but its getting ridiculous the others know what I said so Im good
    Apr 13, 2018 10:58 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: here: "Apr 8, 2018 at 10:43 PM - vipervicki: as for DDD's punishment suggestion, you cant effectively ban anyone in Empires. Getting a new steam ID and even different IP is quite easy. The admins and server owner become policemen 24/7 checking ID's and IP's it wears one down trying to catch someone who is on a server that is already banned."
    Apr 13, 2018 10:58 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: i believe i jumped to a conclusion off of this message
    Apr 13, 2018 10:59 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: my point being, all this ID and IP stuff is behind the scenes nonsense to the average player, all they care about is the here and now, and that is players ruining their current game
    Apr 13, 2018 11:00 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: so as long as the current game is freed of problem people, they don't care
    Apr 13, 2018 11:00 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: which is where kicks/bans handed out by mods/admins do their job
    Apr 13, 2018 11:02 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: if the rabble comes back after your average player is done with their games, said player doesn't care, they got their share of fun unaffected by rabble rousers, job well done
    Apr 13, 2018 11:39 PM - vipervicki: last time to explain I said bans are not effective always and yes it does disrupt plyers games at times especially if the banned player comes back to grief the cv again. I said they were not effective I did not say never ban people. I was explaining how shitty some players in this community are and the trouble they cause by not respcting bans or server rules which in turn. admins and server owners
    Apr 13, 2018 11:39 PM - vipervicki: gt fed up and shut down and quit
    Apr 13, 2018 11:40 PM - vipervicki: i also lsited other scenarios which make it not worth giving this communtiy a server or why people dont want to admin
    Apr 13, 2018 11:41 PM - vipervicki: plyers should care becasue they want a server to play on so its in their best interest to care
    Apr 13, 2018 11:43 PM - vipervicki: and many do how do you think I got tipped off a banned player was back in the server..
    Apr 13, 2018 11:44 PM - vipervicki: but as I said, the good ones suffer because of the bad since its such a small community.. Im done if you dont get my point snow I dont care :)
    Apr 13, 2018 11:44 PM - vipervicki: points now
    Apr 13, 2018 11:45 PM - vipervicki: having viper for so many years during a more populated time I have insight that those who didnt dont have unless they adminned with me then they know fully well, like azk, misfire, security etc theres a reason we all agree we been there.
    Apr 14, 2018 1:15 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: i believe the root of our misunderstanding is that my core point is the merit of bans, while your core point is the merit of hosting a server; iow we're arguing for two different things, not two sides of the same
    Apr 14, 2018 2:16 AM - vipervicki: i never said anything about the merits of hosting a server.excpet for seeing all things more dimensional.
    Apr 14, 2018 2:18 AM - vipervicki: things menaing the good the bad and the ugly
    Apr 14, 2018 2:20 AM - vipervicki: do what you did, get what you got...
    Apr 14, 2018 2:22 AM - vipervicki: uk france and usa are bombing syria atm
    Apr 14, 2018 2:22 AM - vipervicki: strategically ofc
     
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    Apr 14, 2018 at 8:49 AM - Ranger: a truck full of explosives was stopped in italy heading towards france through the tunnel bellow Monte Bianco. (tallest alpine mountain)
    Apr 14, 2018 at 6:39 PM - A-z-K: I don't buy it
    Apr 15, 2018 at 12:01 AM - Ranger: Pirate it!
     
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    Apr 15, 2018 9:58 PM - Sgt.Security: Do what u want cuz pirates are free.
    Apr 15, 2018 10:11 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: @vicki you did say it's no longer worth it for you to run a server... >_>
    Apr 16, 2018 2:22 AM - vipervicki: ddd i said all I am going to say on the subject, its beating a dead horse at this point.
     
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    Apr 16, 2018 6:23 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: and yet you're still at it
    Apr 16, 2018 5:27 PM - vipervicki: you are still at it. I've moved on, you seem to be stuck.
    Apr 16, 2018 5:31 PM - A-z-K: To hell with both of you. I want the last word.
    Apr 16, 2018 6:14 PM - vipervicki: lol miss you AZK
    Apr 16, 2018 7:09 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: indeed, mostly because i'm not the one wanting to move on
    Apr 16, 2018 7:09 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: i'm way too against change to change my lurking spot
    Apr 16, 2018 7:32 PM - Ranger: derstoyer necromancing the chatbox
    Apr 16, 2018 7:33 PM - Ranger: !voteban
    Apr 16, 2018 7:40 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: i'm what now
    Apr 16, 2018 8:01 PM - A-z-K: I think we all learned a valuable lesson.
    Apr 16, 2018 8:07 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: look just because i can roleplay a fantastic succubus doesn't mean i have a thing for shoutboxes
    Apr 16, 2018 11:06 PM - A-z-K: thats exactly the kind of hing someone who has a thing for shoutboxes would say
    Apr 16, 2018 11:49 PM - Ranger: I finally bested the freaking hellhound and its ghost dog friends in witcher 1 on hard with no oils or silversword. that part of the game is so broken oh my dog.
    Apr 17, 2018 12:44 AM - vipervicki: LOL ranger
    Apr 17, 2018 12:44 AM - vipervicki: LOl azk
     
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    Apr 17, 2018 at 7:27 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: ranger why would you not oil up the sword at that part
    Apr 17, 2018 at 7:31 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: like, no wonder the fight feels hard when you skip the most important part of witchering which is prep
    Apr 17, 2018 at 1:44 PM - Ranger: because the game didnt let me. i went back to the oldest save and there witch wouldnt sell stuff anymore and i could not make it either
    Apr 17, 2018 at 1:45 PM - Ranger: but i swear the beast is the most annoying boss in witcher 1. first chapter gtfo
    Apr 17, 2018 at 2:01 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: so
    Apr 17, 2018 at 2:02 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: you played yourself
    Apr 17, 2018 at 2:02 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: (and i agree, worst boss in the series imo)
    Apr 17, 2018 at 6:53 PM - A-z-K: The whole world has gone nuts for God of War. I ain't ever done did no God of warring
    Apr 17, 2018 at 7:48 PM - Ranger: Me neither. I'm an ancient Spartan and I find that game offensive.
    Apr 17, 2018 at 9:06 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: it's only on peasant platforms sadly
    Apr 17, 2018 at 9:08 PM - PwnedYoAss: Fuckin' voiced by Christopher Judge
    Apr 17, 2018 at 9:08 PM - PwnedYoAss: A man who's known for playing a character on Stargate that killed false gods
    Apr 17, 2018 at 9:09 PM - PwnedYoAss: 10/10
    Apr 17, 2018 at 9:09 PM - PwnedYoAss: They were super close to making the new one in Egypt too
    Apr 18, 2018 at 2:29 AM - Xyaminou: Indeed
    Apr 18, 2018 at 3:19 AM - PwnedYoAss:
     
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    Apr 18, 2018 at 4:02 PM - Ranger: I love that one
     
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    May 9, 2018 at 7:01 AM - MegaMLGgaming: Skrrt
    May 9, 2018 at 4:36 PM - vipervicki: average player count 2.8..thats almost as bad as it gets :(
    May 9, 2018 at 4:37 PM - vipervicki: but I would like to spec a .8 of a player O.o
    May 9, 2018 at 5:25 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: there's an amputee joke somewhere in there
    May 9, 2018 at 8:46 PM - .Oktay.: maybe 0.8 player is 1 player but griefing ? like a vet is 2 worth a normal player 1 and depens on how much 1 player girefs he is less then 1 worth
    May 9, 2018 at 10:25 PM - vipervicki: lol
    May 9, 2018 at 10:42 PM - complete_: i want to know why people only play on saturday which is the only day i actually do stuff
    May 9, 2018 at 11:01 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: because, mr. strawman, the only players left have nothing else to do on a weekend afternoon/evening
     
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    May 10, 2018 9:39 AM - complete_: if you guys have no life on the weekend then you should also have no life on weekdays
    May 10, 2018 9:44 AM - complete_: and wow fuck you i am clearly the tin man
    May 10, 2018 9:44 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: i didnt say anyone has no life
    May 10, 2018 9:44 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: the what man? are you looking for the copper woman to make bronze babies?
    May 10, 2018 9:44 AM - complete_: i inferred it with my lack of heart (which is why im the tin man)
    May 10, 2018 9:45 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: i like my explanation better
    May 10, 2018 9:46 AM - complete_: see if you're calling me a strawman then you have to give me something to call you because extremely obscure probably polish references that sound like nonsense are extremely hard to respond to
    May 10, 2018 4:41 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
    May 10, 2018 4:42 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: or the polish take with a name that nobody knows unless they sit in linguistics https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sofizmat_rozszerzenia
    May 11, 2018 4:25 AM - complete_: i know what is a strawman is which is why i was able to play off it but how am i supposed to respond to bronze woman making copper babies?
     
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    May 11, 2018 at 6:23 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: well first off dont mix up who is which metal
    May 11, 2018 at 6:24 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: made of*
    May 11, 2018 at 6:47 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: with that in mind, copper and tin mixed together make bronze (somehow someway)
    May 11, 2018 at 6:48 AM - D.D.D. Destroyer: this isn't an obscure polish reference, it just crossed my mind when i read'tin'
    May 11, 2018 at 11:28 PM - complete_: you learn something new every day
    May 12, 2018 at 2:50 AM - A-z-K: I thought you were talking about fine honeys of colour
     
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    May 13, 2018 4:29 AM - BigTeef: So any new shit
    May 13, 2018 4:29 AM - BigTeef: Or same old same old
     
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    May 13, 2018 5:20 AM - A-z-K: We just been awaiting ur return man. What you playing these Days?
    May 13, 2018 12:26 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: i watched your streams, yo
     
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    May 15, 2018 7:18 AM - MegaMLGgaming: Have a nice day lads
    May 15, 2018 8:45 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: i'm 74.3% sure teef increased the rotation speed of his avatar
     
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    May 16, 2018 at 5:44 AM - MegaMLGgaming: Time for an intelectual debate about this very important thing
    May 16, 2018 at 5:45 AM - MegaMLGgaming: Teef hasn't been on in a long time, why would he bother with something so small
    May 16, 2018 at 5:48 AM - MegaMLGgaming: Maybe, he wanted to come back in a blaze of glory? Maybe his picture is an infinity gauntlet and hr secretly rules empires with an iron fist, each time the rotation increases untill it gets FTL and then
    May 16, 2018 at 5:48 AM - MegaMLGgaming: Boom
    May 16, 2018 at 5:49 AM - MegaMLGgaming: Next thing you see X gets a change of heart and puts his server back to vanilla
    May 16, 2018 at 5:49 AM - MegaMLGgaming: Viper is back up
    May 16, 2018 at 5:49 AM - MegaMLGgaming: So is turbo
    May 16, 2018 at 5:50 AM - MegaMLGgaming: We shall never know what that man has going inside his head.
    May 16, 2018 at 5:50 AM - MegaMLGgaming: Maybe he just likes fast spinny things
     
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    May 19, 2018 11:59 AM - Neoony: [​IMG]
    May 19, 2018 1:21 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: omg it's neoony
    May 19, 2018 1:26 PM - Lollum: Quick, capture it
    May 19, 2018 2:07 PM - McGyver: Hello people :)
    May 19, 2018 3:11 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: https://giphy.com/gifs/Zxzr2pp6qU64g
    May 19, 2018 4:40 PM - Xyaminou: Yes, capture Neoony, we can use him later.
    May 19, 2018 7:22 PM - McGyver: So, the UK royal family just turned black
    May 19, 2018 8:56 PM - D.D.D. Destroyer: i'm fairly certain that is not what happened
    May 19, 2018 11:09 PM - A-z-K: As a loyalist I can confirm
     
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