Script changes for 2.8.1

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Sgt.Security, Mar 26, 2016.

  1. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    That's 20 more cost for LT, 30~40 more for AFV/APC and pretty much no change for other heavier vehicles.
    Also hey, that's net cost-down for Absorbant/Regen/Reactive.

    Walls would be useless, what? It's not like you have dual Ranged researched in the beginning, walls will still have their tactical usefulness.
    If you can get 2 heavy tanks to fire at the same piece of wall, it deserves to be punched down immediately.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2016
  2. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    I never used BEAR since 2.6.7, it's just that bad. (Of course I did try it)

    Let's compare BEAR with BEHR.
    Upsides:
    BEAR has faster cycle time, higher ironsight accuracy and slightly better falloff.
    Downside :
    BEAR has much much lower capacity(1/2 of BEHR), much higher spread-increment and lower damage than BEHR.

    Sure, faster cycle time means technically you should be able to deal higher burst damage, but BEHR has higher initial damage to begin with, if you are at close range, they both have similar burst DPS so this isn't really an upside.

    What's more? Faster cycle time brings two horrible downsides.
    Faster cycle time = lower accuracy, especially BEAR has much higher per-shot spread increment.

    Spread increment of BEHR, BEAR-old, BEAR-new :
    //Increment spread by this amount for every shot fired
    "JumpingSpreadIncrement" "0.01" "0.01" "0.01"
    "StandingSpreadIncrement" "0.0050" "0.0070" "0.0045"
    "DuckingSpreadIncrement" "0.0030" "0.0060" "0.0030"
    "ProneSpreadIncrement" "0.0011" "0.0050" "0.0015"
    You should notice that new BEAR is almost the same as BEHR.

    Faster cycle time also sinks sustainability even more, BEAR has only 20 capacity to begin with.

    Keep in mind that even though I buffed the damage from 30->42, I am giving it higher falloff.
    With 20 capacity, I wouldn't worry that much.

    Now, for NFHR, NFAR completely dominates NFHR at close-mid range.
    NFHR just can't compete with NFAR at close range, hell, even SMG1&SMG2 outclasses NFHR.

    Is NFHR much better than NFAR at long range? Not really.
    When standing, they are both equally bad. When proning, NFHR is laz0r, NFAR is laz0r-machine gun.

    That damage buff & higher standing-accuracy will give it more power to compete with other weapons at close-mid range.

    Don't tell me how many players you killed with NFHR/BEAR, you should look at how many players you could've killed with NFAR/BEHR.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2016
  3. Acolyte

    Acolyte Member

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    I Really like your changes, thank you for working on this!!!
     
  4. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Updated with Bio MG/Plasma MG/Arty rework.
     
  5. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    high explosive arty seems useless to get

    bio mg looks to me like a big buff. i didnt know it was weak
     
  6. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    1150 explosion radius for HE arty though, plus you can engage enemy at a safe range.
     
  7. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Well bio mg is anti tank I guess, which kinda sorta maybe works against infantry(not really though). It did go from 25 dot to 45 for tanks though, and in a shorter time span. I guess your slowly increasing mg's to hemg useful, though hemg still does silly damage.

    I don't like plasma and I want to convert it to a real novel type of weapon. It will be cool, sexy, kinda useful for scrubs and really useful to people who get a slight clue after using it a few times. It can be done and I'm halfway there, I'm just stuck in that terrible spot where I have to reboot empires 20 times and that's such a drag to do.
     
  8. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Bump, updated.
     
  9. Sprayer2708

    Sprayer2708 Member

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    The DoT does double damage in half the time? Love the Bio MG buff, maybe it's not useless anymore.

    Can't wait to test new NFHR and BEAR, only time I ever use them now is when enemies are pixel sized and a way to change loadout is close by. Also, crotch accuracy.

    My Dual small arty D: Y u do dis?!? Oh, btw Arty didnt shoot as fast as a machinegun but as fast as a machinecannon.

    Can you increase damage of sticky bombs now? You already need 3 to blow up a NF Medium (friggin 5 armor plates)

    What about ammo of scout rifle? Was it lowered? Not sure, but I think last time I used it it had somthing like 80 shots or 8 clips (or an equally never-need-to-go-rearm-high number) in reserve.

    About the capacitive angle modifier: does that mean you just have to make the enemy shoot at you perpendicularly to completely negate it?
     
  10. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    About angle modifer, It caps out at 50%, you can never go higher then that. When it comes to capactive it means if you shoot it at an angle you do more damage, like the opposite of reflective. If you shot it perpendicular you would just do normal damage, not negate it.
     
  11. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Basically what she said.

    In 2.8.1 I think we might be able to see some research combinations like Abs+Rail+HEMG, Coolant+Capacitive+low weight weapons..etc
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2016
  12. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    :|
     
  13. Señor_Awesome

    Señor_Awesome Member

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    :grinimp:
     
  14. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    They shouldn't, please press f10 every time you start up the game from now on... walls are there to delay enemies enough or force them to exit their vehicles/be well supported with infantry like they should.

    infantry is obsolete enough as it is late game...

    If you want to add a specialty weapon that is better against walls and structures sure... but a bunch of heavy tanks should NOT plow everything ever...

    <obligatory 'build a wall against the mexicans' joke here>
     
    flasche likes this.
  15. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    You know this makes me wonder. If heavy tanks are considered endgame why are they gotten around the 25-30 minute mark? Or is empires better as a short game?

    I'm just saying, maybe heavies shouldn't be gotten til the 40-50 minute mark, but they really could brainlessly crush everything. Like one shotting lights or killing other heavies in 3 shots. It would certainly bring an end to empires worst combat phase. Seriously late game is shit game.
     
  16. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    I have to agree with lazybum, researching heavies is way too fast, especially on high res maps, on bootybay or plunge or slaughtered I can have dual ER BE Heavies researched in 19 minutes. Hell sometimes researching mediums isn't worth it because you know heavies only take a few more minutes.
     
  17. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Are heavies really necessary? I ask this question because at a medium level you can break down bases, kill infantry, and get past most things with a little effort. If the enemy are seriously turtling, though, that's precisely what artillery is for and does it's job perfectly. It's a dangerous hail of fire that pwn's everything static.

    It seems like heavies are just there to fulfil people's need to have a mammoth tank that crushes everything, and to justify its use over mediums we've give it more and more power. No one needs artillery any more, and people think that's because artillery is useless. Actually, it's because heavies shouldn't really be around that arty is useless. Arty perfectly destroys stalemates and turtling. Heavies just destroy everything.

    I'm not saying I feel they're super overpowered, because they're not insane currently. But the heavy tank itself seems to be a pointless inclusion in the game. What exactly is the threat its fighting? What is it's purpose? Other than to kill other heavy tanks? Mediums handle pretty much everything decently, arties destroy bases. There's literally no need for a heavy tank other than to kill heavy tanks, and they cause more stalemates, more crushing defeats, more research tree rehauls than anything else.

    I bet if you had a serious look at it, you'd find they're probably the reason we can't make tanks fast and fun and dangerous any more, too.

    We've all played the game without getting to heavy tanks before, has it honestly been any worse? Or was it better? A more fun, more dynamic, more interesting game all around?
     
  18. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Because some nubs thought it's a good idea to NOT research heavy tank, we've tried that for quite a few times.
    Here's what happened : If one of the teams isn't stacked, the game literally never ends.

    Our current medium tanks are retardedly terrible, useless, complete garbage in terms of closing a game.

    Of course I can fix that, that's actually very easy.
    But then same shit will occurr and what's achieved in the end? We just removed a type of vehicle from the game and we reach "late-game" even faster.

    So yes, we need heavy tanks.
    I might sound like an asshole for saying this : Too bad if you disagree.
    Throwing this question right back at ya : Why shouldn't a bunch of heavy tanks melt the walls?

    Walls are and will still be tactically useful.

    You reminds me of my APC nerf, people complained a lot about "how useless APC would be", nope, we are still using APC every damn day.

    But do you want me to just postpone heavy tanks for 10 minutes?
    Like I said medium tanks are terrible at closing a game, postponing research will just extend the game, it won't make late-game less shitty.

    I can certainly try to cut the length of late-game, though, that's actually what I am working on.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2016
  19. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    I've played a bunch of games with mediums and that isn't always the case tbh. It does happen sometimes, but why is that? Is it because we need heavies to kill infantry and walls? Or is it because we've underpowered meds to make heavies viable?

    I don't really want to remove heavies, but I'd rather there be a point to them other than they've been buffed to close the game. Because the same issues will keep cropping up otherwise...and they've been cropping up to near a decade now.
     
  20. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Yeah, there you see why I am nerfing walls?
    My arty rework, wall nerf and future tier-3 weapons are all pointing at one thing : Cutting the length of our late-game.
    Even though I have to say, late-game actually requires heavy tactical/map awareness to play properly, it's actually not all about heavy tanks.

    If I successfully cut the length of late-game, I'll then try to extend our funnier early/mid game.
     

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