C:\Program Files\Steam\SteamApps\SourceMods\Empires\scripts\weapon_emp_nf_scout_rifle.txt and C:\Program Files\Steam\SteamApps\SourceMods\Empires\scripts\weapon_emp_imp_rifle3 are the locations of the two files he is looking at. I read through them, and yes, there are diffrences. Damage, cycleing, and that are all the same, but the aim is diffrent. NF: "DuckingSpreadModifier" "0.01" "JumpingSpread" "0.2" BE: "JumpingSpread" "0.5" "DuckingSpreadModifier" "0.05" The BE rifle suffers higher accuracy degration when moving. That's why the BE's Scout rifle's Crosshairs expend when you are running but the NF one stays the same. It is also why NF scouts have been able to jump in the air and shoot me with their rifle before they hit the ground. EDIT: Damn you Mr. Krenz! You've posted before I have! Could you make them both like the BE one? :D
No and I think the DuckingSpreadModifier needs to be set to 0.03 for both teams and the JumpingSpread need to be set to 0.75 to help that out
That's the reason this thread was started, it was claimed that they were the same but after Bobbus looked in to the .txt scripts for the weapons, he saw that they were diffrent, thus, posted.
Jumping spread doesnt really matter. anything larger then 0.1 makes the rifle practically useless. I believe the damage on the BE rifle is slightly lower and the accuracy lower, but the cycle is faster, while the NF has a higher accuracy and more damage at the cost of a slower cycle. I don't see much of a problem.
Wow I thought I was the only one who supported this idea. As an alternative to taking them out though, how about give them to riflemen since riflemen are supposed to excel at taking out infantry. Possible without the zoom feature?
They should certainly remain. The rifleman do excel at taking out infantry already but the scout should have a shot at self defense at various ranges. Besides, a rifleman can already take scouts out rather well, especially if they are a moving rifleman versus a scout who must sit still most of the time to do anything effectively. I believe there were discussions going though for how to make riflemen more effective and ways to increase their accuracy were discussed that would make them an interesting and powerful class. We came a long way from 1.0 when the scouts could basically hit nothing and died all the time to 1.4 and 1.5 where they can properly defend themselves when faced with opposition. They are not a class capable of facing multiple opponents directly and they typically die if they charge anything but at least they have something. Most of the rifleman complaints seem to have come around with the changes to the assault rifle which was pretty much a long range, rapid fire, sniper rifle in itself. There was also a lot of adjustment to scouts post patch but people are beginning to slaughter them again. I really see no reason to remove the scouts rifle or even to nerf it. It does what it needs to for the scout to remain alive. Considering the speed that a scout must trudge across the map comparative to other classes most of the time, they need something to prevent the player frustration of getting sent back to base to trudge slowly all over again.
The sniper rifle turns the scout into another anti-infantry class, a role that is already rather well filled by the rifleman class (save for the NF version). This isn't an issue of self defense, as the sniper rifle is a very offensive weapon. Establishing a perimeter of hidden scouts will essentially lock down the area, and there's nothing you can do about it. Scouts need both the sniper rifle removed and the entire class overhauled into something of a scout class, not rifleman B. Look towards TFC's spy class for examples. (And the AR nerfs weren't enough on the Brenodi spectrum, as the Brenodi AR is pretty much just as accurate, with extreme rate of fire.)
Aye, the BE Assault rifle feels like its the best anti-infantry weapon at all ranges. Decent accuracy, low kick and high rate of fire... as well as some pretty decent damage. I find the problem with the scout not to be his accuracy at range, but that he can kill you in one or two shots up close, even if the other guy is fast and accurate enough with his rifle/smg the scout will probably still win. Its starting to become a friggin kar.
The problem is though that the scout requires what he has to even remain alive in a close range encounter. Remember that not every class has to function to the exclusivity of all others. Riflemen have the ability to destroy vehicles and buildings with their grenades even though that is an engineers or grenadiers job, they can scout things just as well as a scout, apart from artillery spotting, which is more or less rarely used as Artillery tend to just roll into visual range. Typically, if a rifleman opens fire on a scout, he will win unless he is just phoning it in and not paying attention. The rifleman does function as the superior anti-infantry class but he should not be just guaranteed that everyone in his path dies if he doesn't look around him or pay attention to what he is doing. Whenever I take the role of scout, I often die to the riflemen that look about and move with their team. The ones that tend to die are those that go it alone and don't seem to notice what the heck is going on around them. Whenever I face groups that pay attention, I am usually dead. I once was aiming at some engineers and about to shoot one when I started getting shot by one of his friends. I focused on the friend but was unable to fight back because he saw through my hide. The scout really needs weapon of self defense. And before you say he should not have something offensive, keep in mind that any weapon that is competent at self defense is going to have some degree of offensive capability. The fact is that if you do not allow scouts their damage at close range, they are just going to be free cheap kills which is not really what we need. Also keep in mind that the scout is the only class that must be alone in the field to really do their job. Riflemen can move with their units, engineers must move with their units to provide ammo, health, revives, etc. Grenadiers rely on riflemen and possibly engineers for support and cover as they have thier pistol only and also because they quickly run out of ammo. The scout is only doing his job though when he is away from his group collecting information they don't have, therefore he needs a competent defense weapon. The scout rifle is weak at range already and its close range capability indicates its function as a defense weapon. When someone is endangering you, you have the ability to fight back but if you are looking at them from a distance, your damage is reduced so that you are not that offensive. However, you can not reduce its damage at close range and still have it be a defensive weapon. If a scout fires once and then has to wait for the second shot, they will almost certainly be dead before the cycle time. I would just suggest leaving the rifle alone and look at expanding the scouting capabilites before considering anything.
Palehorse, you do not need a one shot rifle to remain alive. All you need is some type of lightweight sub-machine gun. The scout doesn't need to defend himself at all ranges at all. His job is to be quick and silent. GIVE THE SCOUT A PERMANENT SPEED UPGRADE. The rifle, as of now, is not being used for self defense. Scouts go invisible, and hunt down players one at a time and run away. That is not what scouts do in real life. Now, if that what the class is supposed to do, name it assassin or something of the sort. You say the scout needs to be able to defend himself in close quarters, well the rifle isn't very good for that at all, so your argument is rubbish. An smg would fare much better in short range, close quarter battles. Scouts do not carry around big, bulky rifles. It's true that scouts are alone, but they're not alone to kill. They are alone to get past the enemy.
Sure, you describe the current rifle was a 'self-defense weapon' well, I don't see most of the scouts in the servers going around gathering info, instead I see them going offensive, going into hide, waiting for an enemy to go into range, and killing him, then moving to another spot and look for another target. I don't see em spotting or giving targets. I'm not going by theory here, I'm going by what I see in the servers. Adding to this is that the games are pubs, sure there is some teamwork in these pubs, and some guys play really seriously, but the games are generally chaotic, giving scouts ample opportunity to take down loners. You know something isn't quite right with the scout when you see 3-4 scouts in a 9player team and no "x thing was spotted" ever comes up. Further investigation will reveal them hiding in a shadow, next to a wall, waiting for their next victim. And those are called Snipers. Sure, I see several 'true' scouts out there that go ahead of the team, spot tanks, infantry, buildings and give fire coordinates to artillery. But they are a minority, and they give a LOT to a team since we now know what to expect when we engage an enemy. And I have seen ERCannon used effectively by spotting, but only rarely as this requires quite a high level of team work and trust. Another thing I've never seen is a scout using an SMG, may I ask why? Not that nobody uses it, just that I have never seen one. I agree with giving the scout more capabilities, like being able to sabotage and gather more/better types of information. Kinda like a C&C spy were he found out what the building was doing by infiltrating, but all those have already been suggested so I won't go into that.
Currently, the scout rifle needs to stay as is. This argument should only be resumed after the scount actually has a role.
I think one of the main problems that no one seems to have picked up on yet is the fact that the scout has 65 shots for his rifle. This seems extreme to me. I think a much better value would be 15/20 or even lower, so then the scout actually has to try to avoid combat instead of seeking it out with his omgwtfbbqrifle.
