Responing grenades

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Vessboy, May 14, 2009.

  1. Vessboy

    Vessboy Member

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    The suggestion is as follows:
    -Ammo boxes no longer provide grenades
    -all classes can only hold one grenade(two with ammo upgrade)
    -grenades regenerate 40 seconds after use

    Pros:
    -grenade spam is totally eliminated
    -players will almost always have at least one grenade when they need it
    -reduces the amount of time needed to fill up on ammo

    Cons:
    -unrealistic(was never a problem before)
    -reduces effectiveness of grenade based strategies
    -a slow but unlimited amount of grenades may be problematic due to campers

    Alts:
    There've been a great many number of topics about alternatives, see those.
     
  2. Alceister

    Alceister Member

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    Every 40 seconds, A rifleman farts out a frag.

    Actually I don't see anything particularly wrong with this limitation from a mechanic point of view, but insofar opinion is concerned, I will abstain until someone can raise a convincing argument.
     
  3. -=SIP=-

    -=SIP=- Member

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    Don't like this. If we don't change grenades to nukes then only one grenade is too little.

    Solution to prevent grenade spam on buildings:
    After each hit buildings becomes resistant to grenades for 5 seconds.
     
  4. Goose

    Goose Member

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    Would you limit this to frag grenades only? stickies? smoke? concussion?

    I don't like not being able to kill a tank because I was able to get a jump on a heavy and he couldn't run me over or HE me.
     
  5. Lumi

    Lumi Member

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    I'm gonna shoot this down because it falls into the "copycat" category.

    Killzone 2 already did this.
     
  6. Vessboy

    Vessboy Member

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    Yea that stops spam on buildings. but what about infantry? I hate having a great battle in two dug in positions because the weather started raining frags. Mortars can do this. I wouldn't mind having a well aimed mortar blow my cover. but thirty randomly throws grenades... irritating,
    Any way grenades shouldn't be used in large numbers like they are. Steps into the bounds of the grenadier. And If this method was used then the Dev's could more easily balance them so there useful in ones and twos. rather then only useful in 20's
    (Shrugs)Never played it.

    You think your gonna kill a heavy with only a couple more stikys? Most players never get a chance to throw the second.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2009
  7. Demented

    Demented Member

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    What exactly can you kill with one grenade?
     
  8. Vessboy

    Vessboy Member

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    Compliment it with a couple bullets and you'll be fine. You shouldn't need 6
     
  9. Demented

    Demented Member

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    The turret is still alive. You have 38 more seconds until another grenade is acquired. What would you like to do now?
     
  10. Vessboy

    Vessboy Member

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    Call for help. I've never seen a riflemen take a turret with frags, and an Engineer has a plethera of tools that can deal with such a threat. And if it's being repaired you'd need help anyway.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2009
  11. Alceister

    Alceister Member

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    Not if it's level 3. Then you have big problems and have to call in a Grenadier, which no one chooses for any action outside of the base because it more than any other class, needs ammo.

    You need enough grenades or sufficient capability to at the very least ensure the destruction of objects.

    Now that I think of it, magically appearing grenades is not a good idea.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2009
  12. Vessboy

    Vessboy Member

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    If the enemy has a level 3 turret, grenades wont do you any better then an ML and walls. And he gave up a skill for that lvl3. he deserves to have it out smart a siezmic grenade. Grenades are a support item. Haveing many of them make them almost a primary weapon, and in some cases more effective then a primary.
     
  13. Alceister

    Alceister Member

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    However, forcing the player to only carry one in a situation where they are necessary is too stifling, especially considering the fact that they bounce like superballs, and especially in the case of seismic, are mostly effective in spam situations.

    I don't like the spam anymore than you do, but grenades in their current implementation are too unreliable to be thrown only every 40 seconds.

    Perhaps if the timer were cut in half and their power increased, then maybe, it might work. Even then...
     
  14. Vessboy

    Vessboy Member

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    "and especially in the case of seismic, are mostly effective in spam situations"
    Theres your problem. The uneffectiveness per seismic unless used in large numbers. Although my method would reduce concussion, smoke, and frag spam the seismic are the determining factor.

    So with the new resistance system and knowledge of the exact amount of grenades any 1 soldier has access to, the devs can properly balance seismic to their intended purpose. So rather then balancing a tool that is rare in some moments and absurdly plentifully in others. They can finally control all the variables.
     
  15. Alceister

    Alceister Member

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    But again, grenade physics problem. They bounce more than they should, and you can't get a nice single hit. And then after missing, now you have to wait 40 more seconds for another grenade to throw.
     
  16. Wertbarg

    Wertbarg Member

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    one grenade is not enough in most situations. not only that, grenades are not easy for everyone to throw in just the perfect spot. it usually takes somebody two grenades to calibrate their throw, then the remaining three will most likely land where they were intended.
     
  17. Vessboy

    Vessboy Member

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    Now your addresing another problem entirely. Players dont spam because there difficult to aim. They spam because they can. A box full of explosive's negates even the effort to aim. And the trajectory can be learned(like the mortar). Thier not supposed to be precision weapons.


    And the physics of the projectile should be addressed but is not the cause of this problem, and a difrent suggestion.
     
  18. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    i kinda like the first post's suggestion, even if we need to make grenades more powerful to compensate not having many of them


    all those "resistance against it for 5 seconds" rules are kinda a bad way to implement something imo, it makes it even more confusing
     
  19. Mashav

    Mashav Member

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    I have a question.
    What kind of nade spamming are we talking about?
    All the types but one of what im thinking about are genuine strategies that would dramatically change the game if removed.
     
  20. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    I think in the original draft of this suggestion I mentioned buffing grenades to compensate.

    As in you throw one grenade carefully and it will do considerable damage, as opposed to spamming fairly weak grenades constantly.

    We also discussed making seismic grenades work like stickies, you throw them on a building and they drain health for maybe 30 seconds or so, the more engineers that do that, the faster the building dies. There was also the idea of making them beep and flash and be obvious when attached to buildings and then have them be destroyable by the enemy, so you chuck them on the building, then keep the enemy away while they destroy it.

    Grenades don't require great skill to use either, because you can quite easily run up to an enemy wall, sit behind it, then use secondary fire to lob one right over and into the players on the other side.

    If grenades did more damage, were sort of obvious so players have the option of getting away, and were much rarer, this sort of attack would be more common.

    There are plenty of uses for grenades which don't involve spamming, and the bits where spam is currently used can be replaced by methods which don't involve spam, and removing spam also removes all the negative side effects of it.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2009

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