Ranged vs. High Explosive cannon. Is ranged more accurate and easier to use?

Discussion in 'Game Play' started by MiamiHeat87, Jul 7, 2009.

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ER or HE cannon?

  1. Extended Range cannon

    61.0%
  2. High Explosive cannon

    39.0%
  1. MiamiHeat87

    MiamiHeat87 Member

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    Not worrying about in-game dynamics and factors such as what else is in the respective cannon's research tree that is beneficial with it, what do you think or know from experience is a better cannon for the average EMPIRES player to use?

    If you take a look at this post made by a forum member here, he stats how overall HE cannon is better for damage per heat unit. Now I was thinking that this settles it as the primary default cannon you use upgrade too. Then I remember how ER cannon has low arc, is easier to use, and has the same damage as HE according to the wiki minus the explosive radius of course.

    So what is in your opinion the superior weapon or in what situations would you us a particular cannon in what scenario, as well as what tactics are best suited for each cannon?
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2009
  2. PreDominance

    PreDominance Member

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    I like ER because it's lower heat, and it's easier to hit things.
    I like HE cause I don't have to hit the enemy's tank, just near it. It also rapes turrets.

    Buuut since I like DU/ER meds, ER FTW.
     
  3. Apogee

    Apogee Member

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    I prefer ER, as it does more damage over time by far, with less heat (I think?). It's also more accurate. HE doubles as an anti-infantry weapon admirable, but frankly, that's what treads and MGs are for.
     
  4. Brutos

    Brutos Administrator Staff Member Moderator

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    I klicked on the wrong option :(. I do like ER more to use in a tank fight, against Infantry however it is not that useful as HE.
     
  5. Fricken Hamster

    Fricken Hamster Mr. Super Serious

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    They have their own purposes. I remember when ER was awesome, now its slightly less awesome


    dfjek strema fo consiousnes
     
  6. ScardyBob

    ScardyBob Member

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    HE. The explosive radius makes it much much easier to hit things than ER. Also, you can damage multiple things at the same time (think a closely packed turret farm).
     
  7. pickled_heretic

    pickled_heretic Member

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    i think from a purely mathematical standpoint, ER does way more damage to tanks if you can aim with it (which isn't terribly difficult) with and without heat considerations. Turret farms and infantry are only secondary threats to a tank; the main threats are always vehicles.

    you can also building snipe with ER pretty well, especially the gigantic NF barracks. 3 afv mk2's with ER firing together can kill pretty much any building they can see in seconds.
     
  8. Nickierv

    Nickierv Member

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    Here are the relivent numbers, everything else is the same.

    Code:
    Ranged Cannon
    Damage 95, Kinetic 
    Speed 3300 
    Gravity 0.1 
    Heat 14 
    Cycle Time 2 
    Clip Size 40 
    Reload Time 2.0 
    Explosion Radius/Force  200/100
    
    High Explosive Cannon
    Damage 95, Explosive 
    Speed 3000 
    Gravity 0.4125 
    Heat 22 
    Cycle Time 2.5 
    Clip Size 24 
    Reload Time 2.0 
    Explosion Radius/Force  400/200
    
    In terms of "ease of use", its a matter of learning the fireing arcs.
    HE has a nice splash for improv artys, but ranged is more forgiveing if you miss: almost double the ammo, faster RoF, less heat. The extra range is also nice if you can get in a few hits before they can close to fireing range
     
  9. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Always liked ER, although the last time I used it I had a relatively high ping and it seemed kinda slow. HE is good if you're in a multi-foe environment though.

    We need a third 2-slot cannon. That is all.
     
  10. spellman23

    spellman23 Member

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    SALVO CANNON!
     
  11. Senor_Hybrido

    Senor_Hybrido Member

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    ER allows the player to snipe stuff which is good for bad tank drivers.
     
  12. teh_ham

    teh_ham Member

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    Plasma?
     
  13. Ikalx

    Ikalx Member

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    Good point...I probably should have said "useful". No commander researches plasma unless they're crushing the enemy team, want their own team to lose or are either very smart or very dumb.
     
  14. communism

    communism poof

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    I cannot stand ER unless I'm using a BE heavy because they you can just run up and shotgun them.
    I'm used to all the cannons arcing and shit and ER just shoots straight... If my commander researches it I usually just use the Istd cannon since its basically a mini HE
     
  15. Drag

    Drag Member

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    You are missing the "Inertia" values which are a crucial difference between the cannons. Ranged used to have a high "Inertia" values which made it only useable while standing still. This lead to ER being used not so much. Thus not many people know how to shoot it (e.g. point crosshair on tank click...)

    Now the "Inertia" value of ranged is lower its a bit better "on the move" while HE has gained? some of it.

    To my scripting experience the values are:
    0: Should in theory deactivate (reverse) inertia, not sure if it does might try on arty (eliminates ranged arty sniping on money, who cares :P)
    1: No (reverse) inertia to mention/standard setting
    2: old HE setting, omg this shell flies sluggishly
    3: old ER (?) setting, OMG I can't hit shit
    4: WTF my shell just made a visible curve!
    5: Siege Cannon omgwtfbbq my shell just turned 75 degree!
     
  16. -=SIP=-

    -=SIP=- Member

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    I like the ER.

    But I think that the average Empires players does not know the exact values. And so HE seems to be better:
    Bigger visible explosions, faster at killing small targets (turrets/infantry).
    So players sometimes abuse, why commander researches ER and not HE.


    By the way:
    Does the visible explosion radius of HE fit to the real explosion radius?
    Or how much is 400? Length of a LT?
     
  17. PreDominance

    PreDominance Member

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    The explosion is quite large..I don't know exactly how long 400 units is in this game.

    It's larger than the sfx though, for sure.
     
  18. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    er if its balanced game with tanks on both sides and open map
    he if enemy has no tanks and/or its a choke map
     
  19. MiamiHeat87

    MiamiHeat87 Member

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    Now I like that statement SIP. I think that is exactly the problem here. I remember just the other day the Commander on the learning server was getting ER and a young gentlemen was complaining about it saying HE is much better.

    If our Commander knows about the benefits of ER, doesn't fear the complaints of mic users or even the majority, and just explains that in reality ER is better for the job it is meant to do (cannons are for destroying tanks) then there would be much better cooperation from others.

    I believe that units should be specialize towards their strong points and help support each other in a combined arms since. Infantry have different kits that work together (1 Engineer w/Repair, 1 w/Revive, and 1 w/Turret w/ a Rifleman who has an upgrade for and takes point for the squad in the beginning of the match), APCs are researched as infantry support and anti-infantry killing machines, while tanks should eliminate the threat of other tanks and gain armor superiority.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2009
  20. BitterJesus

    BitterJesus Member

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    We have it.

    Plasma
    HE
    Ranged

    How do you manage to miss it.
     

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