Mmmm, I was wondering where I'd fill my weekly quota for Candles-induced erections. So let me get this straight. You can hold up to 100 nuggets of stamina-y goodness. Based on your class, you use up 18, 19 or 20 nuggets/s while sprinting and regen 7, 6 or 5 nuggets/s. If you snag that lovely little stamina skill, then you only use 13, 14 or 15 nuggets/s. Who decided that it was a good idea to vary that based on class? I love this numbers-y bullshit as much as the next guy, but it feels like class differentiation for differentiation's sake. [sub]Also why the fuck is the gren more mobile than the rifleman? Gren is so OP...[/sub]
ya, gren should eat more stamina then any class considering he is carrying WAY more shit then any class. RPG and Mortar + amoz for dem + other crap.
It's not as fast as that. It's only that fast (faster actually, but default is slower) when you tap the sprint button. The thing is it's not really a choice for most classes. Perhaps riflemen get that choice, but I think that's about it. You may argue whether riflemen are the only class that has a right to that kind of ability and I'm not sure whether I can really contest that, but what I can say, is that it does feel like default running speed is slightly too slow, and that it was done in order to have speed modifications and stamina. It almost feels like reverse thinking. Like there needed to be a way to limit bunnyhopping, so stamina was introduced, but then stamina had to have a purpose so sprinting was introduced as a buff and default speed was reduced to compensate. Here I could be totally wrong, since I have no idea what Krenzo intended, but...it feels like it. Scouts are useful, but not really as a constant class. This is why I suggested the vehicle sabotage - which has been suggested before, of course. I used to suggest they have the ability to heal people at a lower rate than engies, which would have made them very useful on a front line, but I dropped that idea many years ago - not because it wasn't viable, but because people didn't want to look at the classes that deeply. That's more or less the problem. For good class balance what you really want is everyone to have the ability to affect all of gameplay, but only be effective at their niche. In Empires we have two classes who are niche only, and no I don't really accept stickies because of how open Empires maps are. If Empires was a small map game, they would be perfect, but it isn't. So for there to be stickies where you absolutely have to be close, and also where it's a low ammo count, it just doesn't work. It's too imbalanced a load. Look, I'm not saying stickies are a terrible thing, they were completely necessary to make both classes viable in a game that becomes more than 50% tank half way through. What I am saying, is they're missing the bar of the acceptable role by a little bit. In many ways, it's like e-build. If only one class could build at all, it all breaks down. It doesn't matter that e-build isn't very good and isn't used if you can help it, what matters is you CAN use it if you need to. There's a world of difference between having e-build and not having it. Now you may say that grens have limited ammunition, yes, but they have a lot of it. Needing to replenish ammo after a few fights isn't wrong, needing to replenish ammo in order to win a fight, is. I mentioned decon in reference to your melee-ing the tank. In actual fact the rifleman and scout classes don't need a GOOD ability to affect vehicles, it could almost be as slow as e-build, or many melee's. What they do need is the ability to affect vehicles beyond what they have. Something that can rightly be regarded as crap, but still an option. Stickies don't really fit that bill, they fit a niche instead. It's insanely awesome that you posted this. Thanks Candles, it really lets us look under the hood. Now I'm just wondering if Trickster tweaked just stamina upgrade or stamina regen for all the classes.
But this is empires, where consistency and realism are used as baselines for design choices unless it would harm the gren classes bunnyhopping bullshit. Might as well add rocket jumping just to make gren more op and out of place.
He's also the toughest motherfucker in the game, he's so badass and tough that he actually forgets he is holding all the crap and it allows him to sprint longer. Roflemen are skinny cowadooey nerds who aren't fit enough to run 5 metres. true story.
Anything that has to do with code means that Trickster didn't touch it, or at least not directly. Seeing how bad it actually is though, I might try talking to Trickster about improving it. This is another good thing about people talking about mechanics rarely talked about. I look at the code for them and realize that they've been broken the whole time.
Those aren't actual skills or weapons, but they're implemented in the infantry_resists.txt script file. You just multiply the damage by (1 - <associated resist>)
Lol, I feel like a derp. But holy shit, these are kinda fucked up: Gren definitely isn't OP. Nope. [sub]P.S. Google Charts is like fucking amazing. That graph was stupidly easy to make. [/sub]
The fucks that gonna change? You get speed first anyway, and its a no brainer over the stamina upgrade. And please dont get a bright idea of nerfing speed.
Say there, thats a "bright" idea you got there. They carry tons of shit. They should eat more stamina AND be slower. However it could be said they are incredibly fit in order to be able to carry all that shit and STILL run the same speed as a scout... SO the more they shoot the faster and longer they should be able to run since they are carrying less.
Sure, lets nerf it then. Its totally not like any player worth his money will know how to handle them. The tanks sure are properly slow in this game as well. Go suck a cock. Mobility is key in empires. You loose that and you are useless. As for secondary weapons, its not my fault tricksters idea of making infantry combat fun is introducing new instakills. I hate them just as much as the other guy.
You know, that's something I wonder about. Would Empires still feel like "Empires" if things were slowed down? What would happen if speed upgrade, stamina upgrade, charge, scout speed & sprinting were all removed and player speed is lowered by like 10%? Would walls & armories matter more? Rifleman matter less? Would jeeps become more common? Or would infantry combat just implode to a standstill and become boring? I think it would've been awesome to see that back in like ~2009.
Now hold on there, stickys have a massive impact. Those 2 grenades can instantly kill most vehicles, it is just heavies and mediums with full compo or reactive that can't be killed by them. If you want to kill something bigger just get ammo upgrade. I mean have you ever used a calc on a tank? It never ends well unless you somehow got them stuck on something. Tanks can turn pretty fast and accelerate quickly enough that you will be either squashed or do almost nothing to them. That is why I am saying you are a bit silly to suggest that having the ability to do a slow decon on tank will do much at all ever. The analogy to ebuild is just terrible in my opinion. Buildings don't fight back and a squad that sticks together can build just as fast as a engy with repair upgrade. You are more likely to actually have a group of people build that stationary building then decon a tank. About gren resists, it does sound a tad unfair. You really have to remember though the gren was meant to face off against tanks and most of those resists reflect that. I have to agree with this. A slow gren is a dead gren. I do kinda agree that a gren should be slower if it can hold so much and has those kind of resists. It is just that I get a good feeling that tanks will be much harder to deal with if one of those things change. If you changed the game as much as spartacus says I think I may hate this game. I remember someone said that in the original design matches would take like 1 and half hours or something, minimum. If people moved that slow that might actually happen. It is like you never played a match on anything that went past the 1 hour mark. People just get bored of the match. Personally I like how things can change at the drop of the hat in empires, changing the speed would really kinda prevent that I feel. Edit: I just want to say I never had a problem dealing with grens as any other class. I guess on paper they sound bad but in practice they aren't so bad.
Roadkills would be a lot easier to do, that's for sure. If you want to nerf gren in speed for whatever reason you want that, at least make him good at shooting tanks. Right now it's like shooting peas at the armor, at best to killsteal.
Stickies...how can I say this. I like them, but I don't think they solve the problem. Basically, if a scout or rifleman ever pass a vehicle in the field that's empty, they're probably just going to bypass it. If they do kill it, then they probably have to go back in order to be able to destroy a vehicle that's actually moving, and if they leave it, it's like leaving an enemy behind you. If there was some way to slowly regenerate the ammo, or maybe even pay for it in wages, I'd be fine with it. I've calc'd tanks (and CV's) to death a lot. Of course engy has a lot of tools to help that happen, but my point isn't about the potency, just the function. I think any engy will tell you they've calc'd a number of vehicles to death and regularly, just like any gren will tell you nerfing gren's speed of all things is the worst idea. If you nerf a gren's speed, you're just nerfing the anti-vehicular class. Now if you have a problem with the gren's damage or their resists, fine, but speed is integral to the class. Also, the people who mentioned realism and load, like seriously what the hell? You do realise this game features one group who are bioengineered and one group that are nanotechnically enhanced, right? Have you ever actually played Empires? When you advocate realism in that game you're asking for a different game. Don't do it. Complain about the things that actually make sense to complain about. Realism. What the hell, seriously. You guys are on dope. Next thing you'll be asking for is carry weight.
