Queuing Research

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Lalaland, Feb 15, 2017.

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Should commanders be able to queue research?

  1. Yes

    6 vote(s)
    42.9%
  2. Yes (with limitations, like one end research goal at a time)

    4 vote(s)
    28.6%
  3. No

    4 vote(s)
    28.6%
  1. Lalaland

    Lalaland (AKA Nemoster)

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    One of the main annoyances as commander is the constant need to be watching the research timer and scheduling new research. Almost every minute you have to stop whatever you are doing and run back to the CV to click through some boring menus. If you are late by just a tad, veterans and other members of your team will rapidly start complaining. This mechanic is boring, annoying, and hostile to new commanders who are still getting used to the research tree and interface.

    I propose that we add the functionality for commanders to queue research. After dropping the radar, the commander could shift click on absorbent armor and advanced coolant and then have the game carry out the rest.

    I think there would be quite a few positives for this feature. Primarily it would reduce the annoying research scheduling duty of the commander. This would hopefully make commanding more fun and entice more people to do it. A secondary benefit is that it would allow commanders to explore the research tree more. They wouldn't have to constantly be worrying about the next research and actually form a concrete long term research plan. Thirdly, this would give the commander more time for other tasks. Hopefully with the additional time, the commander can have more opportunities to lead the team.

    How does everyone feel about the idea of allowing commanders to queue research? Do you see major downsides? Or other advantages? Do you feel it would improve or worsen the game by adding in this ability?
     
  2. Lazybum

    Lazybum Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm indifferent to this, but I don't think I ever been really bothered by having to keep an eye on the timer. It's not that much of a hassle. I do think you should be able to preview what's coming up next and be able to open the tree while research is going on, so new players can see what's to come(no one reads that info box on the bottom).
     
  3. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    awesome its a private poll so i dont have to argue because noone knows i voted no.
     
  4. LordDz_2

    LordDz_2 Strange things happens here

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    Yes please.
    It's annoying to have to hear "research pls", because they see the research text isn't researching cuz I'm inside the menues selecting the next item.
     
  5. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm inclined to say that queueing research should be a thing, but only as one extra item at a time, as a two-item queue of sorts (being researched -> next in line). Research really isn't something that should be set and forgotten about, there's a degree of reactivity to it that is often omitted.
     
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  6. Neoony

    Neoony Member

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    yep, descriptions in research can be quite useless, as you are wasting time with no research everytime you try to read them.
    Quite a problem.

    You need to be able to read them while researching.
    That would be a huge plus for starting comms and even for figuring out what changed.
     
  7. Kidpaler

    Kidpaler Member

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    They need to add green and red text to highlight what it's good for and what it's bad for or what it's slightly stronger against. That will improve readability immensely.

    Also, I agree with destroyer. No big chain researches, but perhaps a way to have a sound play that says you aren't researching that plays every X seconds if you have a radar and aren't conducting research.
     
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  8. Smithy

    Smithy Developer Staff Member Administrator

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    My stance is that you should be able to traverse the research tree's without having the research. ---> Be able to choose a research anywhere, and have the system queue the prerequisites you need.

    While we are at it, having no radar should pause/cancel the research. (Giving you a better reason to have more than 1)
     
  9. Aranjedeath

    Aranjedeath Member

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    Not only yes, but it should be like SOASE where you can queue future research of the same item. Eg: 2 slot ER and 3 slot ER are the same thing, you just research it a second time for 3 slot (and longer research time for 2nd, obvs).
     
  10. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    As an addendum to this, I'd also like to suggest that if all your built radars are sabotaged, research time is doubled (and you can notice it by the timer ticking down slower, not doubling).
     
  11. Lazybum

    Lazybum Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Isn't this how it used to work like 9 years ago? I remember people constantly being annoyed whenever the radar went down because it meant the res and time for research was gone, so games snow balled harder for the winning team.

    Not sure I like this idea, it sounds good and logical on paper but it's something I see helping the winning team more which is never really a good idea for gameplay balance. At least this is what experience from comming the losing team all the time has taught me.
     
  12. D.D.D. Destroyer

    D.D.D. Destroyer Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Outright canceling research seems quite brutal, but just halting is reasonable. Particularly because we don't have resources to worry about anymore.
     
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  13. Lazybum

    Lazybum Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Yeah halting would be alright. Maybe that's how it used to work and I've forgotten? I dunno. Still, I feel like I'm going to be a very sad commander if it does happen.
     
  14. Smithy

    Smithy Developer Staff Member Administrator

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    This is more a problem of it being implemented incorrectly. There shouldn't be a situation where you're charged twice for the same research. (If research cost's are ever used again)

    If people object to pausing/stopping research; why not have the research continue to progress without a radar, but only actually unlock once you get a radar again?
     
  15. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    i think pausing would be intuitive. no radar, no research progress, sounds quite reasonable to me.

    this "help the losing team" arguments, did they really work out? the main changes i recall that were made on this basis were recycling and no research costs and they cut both ways. for the later im unsure wheter or not no costs actually might not have a more adverse impact on games as they help to drag out games that would otherwise have been lost sooner.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
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  16. Lazybum

    Lazybum Member Staff Member Moderator

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    Yeah, I agree that I don't think it is right how a team could be losing the whole match then comeback because heavies, that always felt wrong to me. It's why I liked research costs on chassis.

    In this case though this isn't something to help the losing team, that's not it's intention at all. While it is something that can go both ways, a losing team just never really has the ability to actually do that, so this purely benefits the winning team. This requires skill, it's not just some stat that happens automatically like free research.
     
  17. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    i think for sake of argument we should assume balanced teams even though its highly idealized especially if you look at the current state of the game. i dont think looking at the game from the perspective when there already is a such thing as a winner does help much. im aware, i also have used the "help the losing team" argument before, i just changed my mind on that matter due to aforementiond changes.

    but i do understand your sentiments and dont find them unreasonable either, but wouldnt this help the slippery slope required to ultimatively win the game?
    ofc it would shift emphasis on the radar a lot and considering how easy it is to remove a single building if you care for it, it really might not be the best of an idea to fix this issue.
     
  18. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    No, none of the "help the team" improvements had any effects what-so-ever and the reasoning behind them is absurdly stupid. At least back in the days when you were losing you'd only have to fight against LT rushes or AFV rushes. Now a good team will crush you with heavies at minute 20. Which is what I do.

    Wages are stupid, they do not help the losing team.
    No research costs are stupid, they do not help the losing team.

    I don't want to hear that fucking slippery slope argument ever again. Unfortunately if the idiots behind the terrible decisions, and the bigger idiots that don't revert them, haven't learned their lesson by now I don't think they ever will.

    Now on topic, queuing the next research and navigating the research tree while research are running. Research pauses while you have no radar. Researches are halved when radar are sabotaged, possibly even researching halved when radar under 50% HP, 1/4 when below 25%, like refineries.
    Make it happen Smithy you're the only one who makes good decisions around here.
     
  19. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    the resoning behind wages was to individualize parts of the costs for tanks and take some stress away from the overall resource pool to allow comm research and building without totally locking the vf. the only issue with wages always was that the overall income has never been adapted to accommodate for them.

    the intrdoduction of no research costs and recycling only worsened the problem of too much money at hand.
    but no research costs also has this other nasty sideeffect of weakening the slippery slope of research too much (imo)

    and what is stupid about a slippery slope, its what allows you to win a game, if its overly pronounced the game ends prematurely, if its too weak games drag on to long.
     
    Last edited: Feb 17, 2017
  20. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    Yep. Winning team usually has higher average point, that means more wages.

    This I disagree, entirely.

    3k res means A LOT MORE for the losing team.

    For a lot of times the team would actually fucking lose the game right there if they have to "spend 2 heavy tanks" to get heavy tank research done.
     

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