Pug Idea - Vintage style gameplay pug

Discussion in 'Events' started by Trickster, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    i only lost it once, the first time, then i simply didn't fall for it anymore and concentrated on denying him his game rather than playing by his rules.
    im not entirely sure but i think there was smthg like if you didn't go to comm mode you couldn't be walled.
    also if noone went north, i had him have it. their base is a good trade anyway.

    edit:
    but i kinda see what you mean. its true it often was over before it really started.
    but then, hobbes (and those tryhard copycats of him)
    either boomtanking is a valid strategy from the beginning, including the chance for an early fail, or its not and shouldnt be possible to begin with (opinion)
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
  2. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    If you're willing to trade his main base (1x ref) for north (2 x2 refs) then that's pretty bad. Not competing CV vs CV was just as game losing as getting killed in the CV. The best you could hope for was to be against a commander who was willing to have an unspoken gentleman's agreement that you'd both build your raxes uncontested near eachother. But most asshole comms (Sonecha, me) would probably have just used that to try and go for the kill anyway.

    At the end of the day, there was a reason Sonecha was probably the king of commander 1v1s. He was the only enemy comm I was genuinely terrified of 1v1ing at the start of the game, because I knew in all likelihood he'd find some bullshit way to kill me. I saw him rush Slaughtered S-bend at the start once, kill like 4 infantry with his upside down CV after he rolled it up the side-wall, righted it, drove on, found the BE CV in the south path on his way to the South East, pinned him, walled him and just solokilled him as an engineer before the enemy team managed to get there. Seriously, the guy was the master of bullshit.
     
  3. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    you get dam (its 2x isnt it - also dont forget you could park an apc in there), together with the bases its 4 refs aswell.
    also you should be able to at least hold either one of the side refs (with rax above). if bridges are walled and "armory'd" its also easier to attack north bc you dont risk ending up in water when using this small wooden bridges in an attack.
    but its all so distant. there were more and more dedicated players. at least thats how it feels.
    i think even i would advice against it nowerdays, i agree.
     
  4. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    Dam is 4x, though at the time of when CV's were unrestricted, once you past 12 (or 8?) players it rapidly became worth a lot less than the north due to the refinery player multiplier being fucked (see my original post). Now the Dam will always be equal in value to the pair of refs in the North.

    But yeah you have a point, there were a lot of dedicated players, especially people who were known for "their thing" as it were, people who were genuinely very specialised at what they did. You don't seem to get that these days as much which is a great shame.
     
  5. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    what you fellows mean with dedicated players?
     
  6. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    dedicated to the team and winning. not dedicated to just fucking around and ranking as many points as possible.
     
  7. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    Welcome to Empires 2016.
     
  8. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    tbh thats why you never see me play
     
  9. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    You and many others...

    There are so many people who only ever play in PUGs and similar events because the PUB games have been so terrible...
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
  10. Avatarix

    Avatarix Member

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    wait, you ever play this game?
    I've literally never seen you
     
  11. Señor_Awesome

    Señor_Awesome Member

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    There are so few players/regulars these days you can't really afford to specialize. If you're on a team and you know what you're doing it's a big deal.

    Hey that's not true! Some of us are only dedicated to fucking around and don't care about the points...

    Also I would of course be interested in this.
     
  12. Donald Trump

    Donald Trump Member

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    Because the game has deviated so far from what it used to be. It used to be more tactical team based gameplay that required a lot of skill to be good filling a niche that noobs would stay and become vets in. Over the years, that niche has slowly degraded and become something else that has driven away vets who appreciated the older gameplay along with not attracting many new people.

    This is going to be a cycle, the current vets either have to teach the new people or it's going to be like the noobs are Archaeologists uncovering the secrets of an old, ancient race that had discovered all of the secrets. That or they could come on this cancerous place to read and immediately know all of our old secrets, but that would involve noobs actually coming on here.. so I guess finding the forums for them would be like finding an Archive of some assholes arguing back and forth over something stupid and no actual tips on gameplay.

    Now that I think about it, do we even have tips for gameplay on the forum?
     
  13. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    ive had couple of thousand hours before it started counting on steam. now im only at 600.

    also im rarely called flasche ingame anymore - you might have seen "yes" play? or "no", depends on my mood. tho ppl dont react so well to "no", so i barely use that anymore aswell.
     
  14. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    No senor is more right here, there's usually so little players most of the time that players tend to have to learn everything halfway decently, being a pure whatever is a bad idea if you have any intention of winning. I mean I don't think the game has become less team based at all, it's just the way people play it. Unless that's what you meant?

    When I do get a chance to play and there's people on people either play against stacked vets(though I will admit to seeing new players stack a team as ironic as that sounds), or teams are somewhat balanced but there's not really that many great players that can help elevate other people's skill level. It's something trickster has said before and I kinda have to agree. I feel like that's true with me at least, I really don't have to try very hard to help team because I'm against really average or new players. I swear I used to be much better at this game but I've been getting progressively worse as time goes on.:(
     
  15. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    how about 30 seconds then
     
  16. Tama

    Tama Developer Staff Member Web Developer

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    First of all; fuck yes. I really hope that I can be there, although it's unlikely I will have a gaming PC ready in the next month. :( Still, I'd be happy enough to see a recording to know if and how we can bring back the variance in game flow that I miss from years ago.

    A great hack - someone please experiment with: emp_give NF -3000
    That should work as server admin without cheats on, and subtract up to that amount, printing an error to your console if the res was too little.

    I'd like to search the code for the removal of research cost to see if that's easy to put back for the test - I don't really understand why that wasn't just done by setting the costs all to 0 and leaving the code.

    Read the vehicle scripts, they contain a percentage, which you can set to 0 - please test it first, that should just make it not give any res, but still take just as long to recycle. I think you can also decrease the points it takes to recycle seperately
     
  17. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    Costs are in the scripts, the problem trickster mentions is that while the server will know the correct value to research something the clients will show up as costing 0 because they don't have the same scripts as the server. It's amazing the amount of things you can change on the server and still have the game run, but boy do you run in to graphical problems everywhere.
     
  18. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    To the best of my knowledge that's exactly how it's done. I remember setting all research costs to 0. I think I got a slight code edit some time after to make it so that if the cost is 0, it just removes the bit that actually states the cost.

    I think you might have misunderstood what I was saying. I can change the cost to 3000 in the scripts, serverside. That's not a problem at all. The issue is that assuming nothing has changed since the last time I was doing things like this, the client will have scripts which states the cost is 0, not 3000. Thus, when they go to research it, they'll be clicking "research" but nothing will happen. It won't tell them they need 3000 resources. That's the only issue, hence I'd need to inform the commanders directly that "Hey, ignore whatever the UI says, you need 3k to research Heavies".

    As for when this is happening, I really don't know at the moment. I got a bit swamped with things lately and I need at least a couple of days free so I can get ingame on a listen server and fuck about with resource rates, intervals, player multipliers (simulated using bots), etc. After that I'll ask TheCreeper about maybe hosting a pug.

    Virtually all of the other things I mentioned are pretty easy for me to set serverside without any client discrepancies or code-based assistance, it's all possible using scripts or server variables. The interval is the only one that's a bit iffy because of the interaction with refinery income and refinery HP (it also works based off interval changing), but I think I can deal with that or get around it, it'll just mean that aspect of the game (less res from damaged refineries) isn't really as strong as it's meant to be, but I don't really know if it ever makes that much difference to the game anyway.
     
  19. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    can't we just hook trickster up with a steam "beta" branch, so we can just switch to it when we play the PUG?
     
  20. Neoony

    Neoony Member

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    I dont think anything that Trickster needs for this, is worth the trouble of downloading another client.

    Which I think would have huge impact on population of the event. (or the willingness to participate)

    EDIT: In other way, probably rather have no research cost, than having to download client just because of that.

    IMO :P
     
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2016

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