Player count based vehicle limit

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by Paradox, Sep 9, 2016.

  1. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    A player count based vehicle limit would be good.
    Empires isnt fun when the main tactic is, GET IN TANKS EVERYONE. It should be a split effort between tanks and infantry. mid and lategame its not anymore, in pubs not everyone gets in tanks, but the winning strategy is to get in tanks thats why in scrims everyone does it and its fucking obnoxious.

    So, 1 tank per 2 players on the team.

    This isnt much work right?
     
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  2. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    I'm for anything that limits the amount of vehicles. I enjoyed Empires most when resources were scarce, research was slower and the vehicle limit was hard-set at 10.
     
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  3. Sgt.Security

    Sgt.Security Member

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    1. Vehicle limit should exclude Jeep/LT&AFV.
    For obvious reasons.

    2. Before we make infantry more useful in late-game, we shouldn't set a limit. ( Vehicle/Player < 0.8)
    Or people will just sit in VF.

    3. If we simply limit vehicle amount and we are not doing anything to resources, our late-game will probably be even more sluggish.
    I can certainly make heavy tank cost 2000 but then a random nub will lose you the game.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
  4. Neoony

    Neoony Member

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    Yes, please!! :D
     
  5. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    Jeeps and CV, yes definitely.
    Not sure why you'd ignore LTs and AFVs.
    Maybe APCs? they're support vehicles after all.
     
  6. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    jeeps cv and apc yes but afv's No. every pug since ever, every commander yells get in lt's afvs, and all of a sudden in 3 minutes time youll have 20 vehicles on the road.

    We should limit resources again. Half income, keep the wages, this way idiots can waste resources but as a good player you still have money to buy yourself a tank.
     
  7. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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    I'm not really sold on apcs not being included in the vehicle limit, shove hemg or 3 slot du and it's got nearly the same damage output of a light, damage that's hitscan at that. Sure it's a support vehicle, but it can also be a rather effective offensive vehicle too.

    I agree jeeps and cv shouldn't count towards limit, those things don't bog down anything at all.

    I am hesitant to say this will actually fix anything though, that's still 12 heavies on the field on a full server. Reducing resources would help more if you wanted less tanks. It doesn't hurt to try, it should be tried out, I just don't think too much will change.
     
  8. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    did you mean apc? the cv doesn't count for the limit - or at least it shouldn't.

    but tbh just buff grens by hardcoding 2 same side hit kills no matter what chassis or armor. to have them have a weakness nerf mortar so only a direct hit headshot istakills. fucking finally make gren an anti vehicle class.

    but whatever i know noone likes that so just disregard as you do with the rest my input.
     
  9. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    It currently does count.

    Then I would never ever use a heavy. You can't have something that's free kill a 1.4k resources heavy in 2 hits...

    I mean... You gotta think about it before suggesting such things.
     
  10. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    as it stands now all vehicles including the cv are included in the vehicle limit.
     
  11. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    im on the phone. i forgot to add tank damage output against infantry and buildings should also be drastically increased for most weapons. currently you can headshot people and they survive.

    prices are a variable, they can be changed easily, 1300+ is nothing but a sad excuse tbh. tank combat in empires is just dull and takes for fucking ever.

    and while we're at it, bring the rest of at-weaponry en par with that aswell. even turrets. tank mobility in empires is absurd. unless its a darn huge turrent farm and half their team in close proximity you can take your tank (even upg. armor apcs) wherever you want.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
  12. Paradox

    Paradox I am a gigantic asshole who loses people's hard wo

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    Its important to find a good balance between the 2. I dont want empires to feel like bf where 1 tank hit kills u. But as of now, it takes 4 tank hits to kill u which doesnt make sense either
     
  13. blizzerd

    blizzerd Member

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    Map vehicle limit, person per vehicle limit, and commander controlled chassis limit.

    implement all of them

    ALL OF THEMMMLMMMMLLFDCSKFDLFK
     
  14. Lazybum

    Lazybum :D Staff Member Moderator

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  15. vipervicki

    vipervicki Member

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    limitless what can be limited :P
    I like blizzys idea of map vehicle limit and person vehicle limit.
     
  16. Neoony

    Neoony Member

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    Well, I actually feel like the health/armor of tanks is ok (maybe a bit too tough, but only a little).
    The only problem I have is the excessive amount of vehicles.

    So even when tanks are quite tough currently, I think just limiting the number of them would help that quite almost enough.
    In other way, I would rather prefer tough tanks, but not as many (tough but more rare).

    And yeah, if you limit tanks, resources must go down too.

    And as I always mention in "limit number of vehicles" threads, the problem of people camping vfs might make a comeback, which needs to be considered and could probably use a solution.

    So yeah, Iam totally up for reducing vehicle numbers.
    Personally I find the current "vehicle overnumbered" fights really annoying, not only because of FPS drops from 80/100+ to 20-40...but also it just feels so insignificant shooting one of 20 tanks while another 5 are being produced, while you kill just one.
    And I dont think its only a problem for infantry vs tanks, but also for the tank fights as well. The more tanks there are, the less enjoyable I find the vehicle fights.

    So please, limit them :D

    ...oh also, I would prefer if it was rather resources limited than just the vehicle limit. (it needs both limitations, it should just be more limited by res, than the limit)
    As number of resources should reflect what the team can do. (even though many problems come with that, like bad people misusing resources and affecting the team badly for example)

    heheh, you wrote that just when I was writing the post where I mention it :D
    Security mentioned it too btw.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2016
  17. Herbie

    Herbie Junior Member

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    yea I agree endless tanks is painful.

    Limiting tanks kind of reminds me of that really old idea of "empires macro". Can anyone remember that?

    Basically the VF would only build 1 tank every 30 seconds (or vehicle dependent) and you would be placed into a queue if you wanted to build one. You would see the number in the UI above the building. If you wanted more production you would build more vehicle factories. The same goes with spawning, the barracks could only spawn 1 player every ten seconds. You could see the spawn queues on the spawn map. Basically the comm would macro out a bunch of barrack's and build apcs to ensure his players could spawn instantly. Research would take much longer but every radar would be able to research a different thing.

    I always thought that was a nice idea and more RTS like.

    Perhaps if empires ever becomes open source I might try and create a fork with a prototype like this.
     
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2016
  18. Xyaminou

    Xyaminou Member

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    I don't remember that, but I have had a similar idea to improve the RTS part of Empires and remove the tickets. The barracks would store a number of "clones" produced on demand by the commander, and you could attach a couple of extra "store pods" if you want more storage, so if you want your entire team to be able to killspawn you better make sure your barracks are fully stocked. All of that would cost money, it would be very similar to most RTS.
    Of course that's only a small part of what would have to be done to Empires to improve the RTS and hopefully the game.
     
  19. Neoony

    Neoony Member

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    Yeah, I was thinking exactly of that when I mentioned "camping in vf could use a solution"
    That is definitely a solution, but whos gonna make it real? :D

    Just saying that it might not be an "easy" solution, if you know what I mean.
    But it seems its a good one.
     
  20. complete_

    complete_ lamer

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    per vehicle limit. add it beside the vehicle name in vf menu

    Northern Faction APC 3/12
     

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