First of all we can still go with what we already know is going to happen. Rifle gets removed and the second weapons from the Rifleman class will recieve a scope. Scout instead gets access to a shotgun, which will greatly boost his close-combat performance, making him the best agile closeup fighter in the game. I don't see any problems with this. Buildings will not be able to get destroyed by sabbing anymore, maybe the sab will be dropped completely for buildings, we don't know... but this basically already nails down the scouts role. He has a close range profile and he can't destroy bases. So the trick is to give him the proper(unique) skills to make him worthwhile and not totally obsolete on the battlefield. One of the debates is focused about the scouting performance of the class. Binocs rarely ever get used at all, so either get rid of the binocs completely or make them viable to use. Possible binoc/scouting enhancements: - mark several targets for a longer period of time, like the "enemy spotted" command, but maybe 3 times longer - display the health of a marked target/building - together with the above, detect armor on a vehicle for everyone who looks at the marked vehicle - give the binocs a buildmenu much like the calculator to drop cameras/radars which only work for a limited time The other thing that could work is to focus on the new weapon or the fact that he's going to be up close and personal, especially with skills: - add the "Bastard" skill to make victims unrevivable - add a "Sprint" skill which adds +50% speed to your sprint, stacks with the permanent +10% speed skill - add a "Toughness" skill which gives a 20% chance to survive a deadly hit with 5 hp left Furthermore, some people voiced a possible support role for the squad, where the most viable options boil down to something like this: - passively increase the squad leaders aura, might become a skill? - also has the ability to drop ammoboxes like engis (might or might not remove this from engineers, that's up for discussion, maybe different cooldowns) - rework the class into a medic - give support weapons instead of the binocs, varying opinions about stun mines, traps or even MG or mortar Meh... might put this into a new thread, but feel free to rant. Please don't forget that I'm not saying it totally needs all of the above, but handpicking a few things from the list and fleshing it out should work just fine.
Personally I would love the following combination: More targets for the binocs and marked for a longer time and show health and armor details. Add the Bastard skill and the Sprint skill, maybe make stamina get used a bit faster when using the pimped sprint... still undecided about the toughness skill, but I think it could be fun. Also, no sabbing on buildings but faster sabbing of deployables. So yeah, I'd love to see a focus on the close-combat abilities.
We need to do this...or rather make a thread where people only post the things they want in the scout class, in bullet points, in their posts. Someone writes down all the points, and then creates a new thread with the opening post listing all the ideas with numbers next to them. In that thread, everyone posts which numbers they want in a scout, and you take the numbers that get mentioned by the most people. After that, you can worry about changing baseline stats like health, stamina and resistances etc. You would have got most of the abilities for the class collated so that the devs could make the final choices. I cannot express how strongly I urge you to do this...it really is your best bet for a fuller flavour :p Also, Quality
let us first agree on a list of what NOT to put into the new scout, THEN agree on what to put into the new scout also i must say megels 3th is an acceptable suggestion ,but not my favourite from the 3 for example, not: sabotage (makes people play sneaky, and waste too much time doing so) silenced (makes people play sneaky, and waste too much time doing so) hide in its current form: (makes people play sneaky, and waste too much time doing so)
No one can agree on what they want removed, that's the point. People would post what they want to see and we'd get a master list from all of that. Then people merely tick what they want, and the stuff with most ticks, gets put in...or rather mulled over by the devs.
If you present an argument, the burden of proof lies on your end. If people think your terrible ideas are terrible, you'll have to rebuke them; not the other way around. Providing support rather than simply theory crafting would help as well.
I like most of what I see (especially the timed explosive, as long as the explosion is long enough to give the enemy time to react and gives some sort of warning). But I agree with everyone who says that Hide needs reworking. As it is now, it's just not very fun to use, and Empires maps tend to be too big, flat, and wide-open to really support it. The scout needs a method of being stealthy without moving slowly (which simply isn't any fun in Empires) or relying on nearby walls (Empires maps are too flat for this.)
Do we even need the Scout? Should we even keep it? I think gameplay would stay pretty balanced with out it. It seems like a unnecessary holdover
I think I've worked out the strategy with this thread. We're going to keep getting new threads until all the people that opposed it get so bored with fighting it we just give up, and thus there is no opposition left.
We just need to work with Megel a bit more and rage against him less, and maybe he needs to say "i'll take it under consideration" regarding building saboutage, compared to "no, never, nein!" But seriously, we need to be calmer about this mostly...and hang in there. If you expected results in 3 days, you wouldn't be testing Empires :p
yes walking camera - no comm targets ... ove: tho id still like to see the scout and engi merged into medic and some field ops guy
Yea like half the community supports "fix by removal", especially since almost every scout idea involves taking stuff from the other classes and giving it to the scout. but the devs seem pretty set on a 4th class.
I think the thing is, none of us here who are opposing it like the idea of someone who hasn't played the game in years deciding on the future which could make or break things. Especially when the examples he presents we totally disagree with and thing it's totally something that someone who doesn't play this mod would say.
I definitly share trickster sentiment. The classes are actually somewhat good right now, and fucking with them to make the scout viable just shows that someone doesn't play empires.
