Official Scout Change Thread

Discussion in 'Feedback' started by DonMegel, Sep 19, 2009.

?

What do you think?

  1. Do this as it is

    5 vote(s)
    20.0%
  2. Do this with just a few changes

    13 vote(s)
    52.0%
  3. Don't do this

    7 vote(s)
    28.0%
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  1. DonMegel

    DonMegel Member

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    These are my proposed changes to change the Scout. As a Developer I will moderate this thread and try to steer conversation in a productive direction. You may vote to implement these ideas as is or not. I will change the poll to reflect new information so that you can change your vote. These changes will not be in the up and coming patch as it is in the testing phases but could appear in a hot fix afterward or in the next patch.

    The role of the Scout must be changed to encourage team work. Teamwork has always been our a goal and right now the scout does nothing for the team and is encouraged to go off on his own rather than stick with his squad.

    For this we need to make the scout want to be with his squad and make his squad want someone to be a scout. Towards this end I feel that the scout should provide information and "niche" roles.

    If a scout is in a squad and in range of a friednly radar...

    - Then building health is always displayed on mini map,
    - armor type and main weapon of enemy vehicals is displayed floating over the vehical,
    - Class and health of enemy inf is displayed, maybe name too
    - Range of camera/radar is slightly increased.

    If no camera/radar is around...

    - Scout provides short range radar power at all times minus the extra info
    - If binocs are out he provides short range camera power or jammer depending on his skill set.

    Every enemy building/inf seen through the binocs for two seconds appears on the minimap for the team and on the HUD for his squad. When no longer looking at the units, they slowly fade away. 1/4 a point is won for units destroyed while on screen.

    Primary fire, when looking though the Binocs, "targets" a unit. Grenadiers and artillery can then "lock onto" the target, ensuring they hit it every time.

    Primary fire with binocs out fires a short range dart that tracks what it hits until unit is destroyed or dart is removed by enemy scout. Limit of 4, oldest one goes away when 5th dart is fired. 1/2 a point for unit destroyed while tagged.

    Range of squad powers increase when Scout is near the squad leader.

    Vehicals driven by scout become invisible to radar

    Sabotage will be limited to ONLY engy equipment and vehicals.
    - Ammo box switches sides
    - Enemy turrets switch sides
    - Enemy camera/radar displays enemies

    Scout would only be able to have a shotgun

    Timed explosives with adjustable time could be chosen in the load out as well as anti peronsel mines that don't hurt vehicals, only people.

    Martial arts skill: would allow scout to lunge forward at great speed, using up all of his stamina, instead of a longer, slower sprint. All scout melee hits are fatal.

    Hide would remain.

    EDIT: Primary fire, when looking though the Binocs, "targets" a unit. Grenadiers and artillery can then "lock onto" the target, ensuring they hit it every time. Added
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
  2. ViroMan

    ViroMan Black Hole (*sniff*) Bully

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    (SP corrected)
    aww no more barax sabo?!
    Edit: Wait wait... I missed that part.... VEHICLES TOO!? The scout will be able to sabo tanks!?

    (SP corrected)

    1) WTF!? So you mean everyone switches to scout on non com maps and the fist fighting starts?

    2)This is just way too overpowered. There are a few players I know that are already godly with fisting, this just makes them truly gods.


    Other then my two complaints listed above I like it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
  3. Wilko

    Wilko Member

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    Those changes seemed fine until it got to the weaponery. Scouts with shotguns (probably 8 shell versions of the NF shotty pistol) so that's instant death and then one-hit kill punches if that fails. Plus they keep hide so you're not really going to spot them until they massacre you from out of nowhere. I'm afraid I can see that getting very boring very quickly.
     
  4. OuNin

    OuNin Member

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    "Special Forces" would be a gigantic noob magnet. Flowery name isn't necessary. The scout's functions need to be expansive, but at the same time, they need to read easily. Some of your suggestions seem either awkward or gimmicky. Darts fired from binoculars? Timed explosives, dedicated AP mines? Martial arts? Shotguns?

    I feel that these features just seem to be thrown together rather than focused on accentuating specific playstyles with respect to teamwork.

    Scout should be a ranger and pointman. Scout should provide offensive combat support, filling the niches of very long and very short range combat where rifleman isn't fully effective. Scout would be capable of switching between roles through changing weapons and selecting different skills.

    Suggestions in boldface.

    As a ranger, scout has basic ranged capabilities for spotting, reporting of, and engaging enemy infantry with consistent effectiveness with his squad. For this, the scout currently has a pair of binoculars. The binoculars should be made more responsive so he can spot several targets simultaneously or within a few moments of each other. Currently, the scout currently has a scoped rifle (not necessarily a 'sniper' rifler). The scout rifle should be changed into an actual semi-automatic carbine (shortened version of a rifle, like the M1 Carbine compared to the M1 Garand). This scout rifle would allow the scout to accurately lay down fire at range without being inherently overpowered. A great deal of damage would be from well-placed headshots which wouldn't instantly kill infantry at range but help bring them down. With a larger base of fire, such as an automatic rifleman, this will be devastating. Not so much on its own.

    As a pointman, scout has strong close-quarters combat capabilities for anticipating, disabling, and eliminating enemy infantry at close range with devastating efficiency. Currently, scout has enhanced senses and access to both SMGs. [I don’t like the idea of a shotgun. Half the scunts get a boner off the idea of hide-skill in the enemy barracks with a full-power shotgun (as opposed to a shotgun pistol). Nothing is more frustrating than being taken down in an instant with a handful of buckshot without a chance to retaliate. A shotgun is a dumb idea and would require even more time to rebalance infantry combat.] Additionally, scout has concussion grenades which excel at close range when a whole room of infantry. I suggest that the fuse time be shortened from about 5 to 3 seconds. Additionally, the base priming fuse time (minimum when you hold mouse1 and cook a grenade) be shortened from about 2 to 1.5 seconds. Concussion grenades are very useful but their effectiveness would increase greatly if players can deploy them more quickly. Also, remove the difference in ammo capacity in engineers’ and scouts’ SMG2s. That’s stupid.Possibly scouts should have half the resistance against small arms that riflemen have where grenadiers have resistance against explosives. Of course, clearing a room isn’t easy as a single guy, the scout still needs his team to be successful.

    Under the umbrella that is scout, you have CQB specialist and a ranged support.

    Relatedly: http://forums.empiresmod.com/showthread.php?t=9934
    I do like your additional sabotage capabilities though. But get rid of hide.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
  5. Z100000M

    Z100000M Vithered Weteran

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    proposed changes are mostly good, aside being able to sab vehicles, martial arts thingy and keeping the hide (it hardly supports teamwork, even without sr)
     
  6. DonMegel

    DonMegel Member

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    Hide is really a neat thing that many other mods don't have (as a class feature, not a power up) I would like to keep it if at all possible. Perhaps make hide an advanced skill?

    Its a neat idea to allow scouts to get ammo from the dead and dispence it back out, maybe by going to a player and hitting use. Only problem is if the scout is hiding then a player needing ammoz is going to start jumping on the scout's head.

    I can see your concerns about an invisible shotgun man. Perhaps dock the Scout's health when he is not with his squad?

    There will be no scoped rifle. We have tried a scoped rifle every which way and it is just fail. There will be NO scoped rifle.

    Martail arts were a way to increase the Scout's CQ combat role. Perhaps the immune to melee was a but much, but the lunge and one hit kill melee are good.
     
  7. Mashav

    Mashav Member

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    1. I've been staying quiet about the scout so that as soon as 2.25 came out I could try and convince the devs to make the scout a priority for 3.0.
    With you coming out now, this means that it can't really be a focus of 2.25 (unless we delay it) or of 3.0 (too early).

    2. Without a working class, there is not much point discussing it. We've been arguing over the scout for a long time and with only the promise of how something will play, we get nowhere. In order to truely expand on what should be we need to have playtests with working (not entirely balanced, but working) "scouts".

    3. Several people (including myself) have lists of changes that consider several different ways to take the scout. Alot of these are rather comprehensive and should be made into working models and tested, even if only to show what people will enjoy. I've attempted to collect these lists before, but without dev backing, it failed.
    Consideration of these different basic foundations of the "scout" will allow for more robust testing and better cooperation from the community.

    4. As for your outline of the scout:
    • The scout needs to be in a squad and near a radar to function properly. This is limiting the usefulness of the scout while working with non-squaded teamates or while too far away from a radar.
    • With requireing no feedback from the scout to increase the functioning of the buildings/teamates, it essentially creates an artificial need for the scout. You don't want one because they can do something, you want them because they make you better.
    • Details are missing: What skills do they have, and how do they work? what pistols and grenades? Fire-rate for the new weapons/tools? are these effects cumulative?
    Also, these were the last numbers as to the degree to which the scout should be changed.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
  8. OuNin

    OuNin Member

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    Also above, Mashav, are my suggestions for scout, since you've been asking.
     
  9. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    Some of those suggestions are really good.
    Others are really bad.

    That's my opinion anyway.
     
  10. Jephir

    Jephir ALL GLORY TO THE JEPHIR

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    The easiest and most effective way to improve the scout

    The easiest and most effective way to improve the scout is to turn it into a combat support class.

    There is no need to add new features to the scout. Everything that the scout needs to be useful has already been implemented in Empires.

    Simply move healing, ammo drop, and camera/radar placement abilities from the engineer to the scout. The engineer retains the ability to repair structures, place turrets and walls and repair vehicles.

    This will make the scout extremely useful for supporting teammates in combat. The scout now improves the survivability of infantry by healing them when they are wounded. In addition, the scout is now critically important to engineers and grenadiers, providing them with an unlimited supply of seismic grenades and RPG rounds, mortars and mines. Finally, the ability to place surveillance equipment increases the offensive power of the entire team, being able to see enemy units around terrain.

    The engineer will still be useful. Engineers will still fill the niche of base construction, vehicles repair, and defense/entrenchment. They are by no means useless.

    As you can see, this solution provides what everyone wants in Empires: teamwork. And it achieves this without having to code any new weapons or abilities to the game. Instead of arguing over what to add to the game, why not just re-use what is already there?
     
  11. DonMegel

    DonMegel Member

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    Some of these arguments are valid.

    I wanted SMGs removed because with Martial arts the scout would be lethal at close range, I didn't want him to be potent at medium range as well.

    Sabotaging buildings makes the scout want to leave the squad and go out on his own. This is not somthing we wish to encourage. Besides, the damage the scout does to the buildings is just irritating.

    Enemy engy structures are somthing every squad comes accross and being able to "convert them" instead of destroying them would be very useful.

    Please, feel free to post some of the other "comprehensive" scout changes here. Perhaps we can incorperate them and form a new plan.

    I've added artillery spotting as a Binocular function in the first post.
     
  12. o_O

    o_O Member

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    This would be a nerf to the scout overall. Yes it would make him more 'teamworky' but right now the scouts main 'useful' use is sabbing buildings. With the DOT removed it would actually be a useful teamwork required ability too.

    The scouts 'parasite' dart and spotting abilities are just worthless. You can already see what class the enemies are, you can already see more or less what a tank is equiped with once it fires and the I feel like armor specific effects are going to be added eventually. We already have targets, engi cameras, radars, real radars and normal target spotting.

    Basically, a team would waste a rifleman/rev engi slot for a combination of inteligence you already should have (COMM TARGETS, VISUALLY LOOKING AT WHAT GUN THE ENEMY HAS ETC) and a soldier who has 2 instakill close range weapons and no long range ones. I would say, giving all this stuff to the scout and keeping everything he already has would be a good start

    Converting stuff is pretty cool, yet I feel like most turrets that live long enough to be sabbed by a scout who lives long enough to sab them would have to be far away from battle. Would definatly lead to occasional epic lvl 3 turret 'stealing' that could demolish whole teams though, I am 100% for it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
  13. flasche

    flasche Member Staff Member Moderator

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    NO, just NO ... NO ... i cant tell how much NO i mean ... :mad:

    the mortar already is a pretty accurate weapon, the only challenge is to judge distances from a 2D picture. you best notice that on district - ask any of the good grenadiers - if they disagree they lie ...
    this "idea" would make the mortar either totaly overpowerd or completely useless without a scout targeting. dont ruin all our grenadiers fun :pathetic:

    tho arties aint that precise, they dont need tracking either ... for exactly the same reasons. it would be either overpowerd with or underpowerd (read useless) unless you have a scout.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
  14. Mashav

    Mashav Member

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    Blue=changes
    values are pre-balance, can be subject to change.
    Mashav's Scout Outline

    Weapons:


    Slot 1:

    Silenced Pistol : Damage: 25, Clip Size: 9, Carry Limit: 27 Bullets, Accuracy: Fair, Range: fair, Rate Of Fire: 120 Bullets Per Minute. Backup weapon. Loses what little accuracy it has quickly. Reduced weapon noise. Hides kill messages when using it

    Tracer Rifle: Damage: 15, Clip Size: 5, Carry Limit: 60 Bullets, Accuracy: Excellent, Range: High, Rate Of Fire: 40 Bullets Per Minute. On hit, Target is winded (loses all stamina), Shows up on the minimap for your team, and as a Red target for yourself. If the victim was an engineer, they lose 50 Engineer tool ammo.


    Slot 2:

    Smg1:Automatic, Damage: 17, Clip Size: 30, Carry Limit: 120 Bullets, Accuracy: Good, Range: Fair, Rate Of Fire: 700 Bullets Per Minute. Sustains accuracy somewhat.

    Smg2: Automatic, Damage: 22 Clip Size: 30, Carry Limit: 120, Accuracy: Fair, Range: Low, Rate Of Fire: 600 Bullets Per Minute. Sustaining accuracy difficult.

    Shotgun: Specific stats to be determined. High damage. Low range. Accuracy low.

    Slot 3:

    Smoke Grenades: Limit:5 Emits a plume of smoke where it lands. Obscures people inside and people attempting to look through Removes all targets on and given to infantry withen the smoke. Horizontal radius increased by 50%.

    Concussion Grenades: Limit 5 Creates a bright flash that will blind enemies and disable turrets for 15 seconds. People within the blast radius lose all stamina, become winded and lose any active targets.

    Stun Bomb Grenades: Limit 3. Damage 50. 1 destroys a wall section. Low throw distance. Radius of stun Increased to mine explosion radius. Fuse removed. Throws with right mouse button, Detonates with left button. Sticks to all surfaces. Adds Concussion dissable effect to turrets. Add Concussion flash. Can have 6 set at any time. All stuns removed on respawn(use of a ticket).


    Slot 4:
    Scout binoculars - Used to observe enemy activity and tag them Double current RoF and 3 targets markable

    Skills.
    Improved Hide: Makes him invisible to enemies when crouching or prone. To use, simply crouch/prone and wait. You are transparent depending on the amount of walls you are touching. A hide bar charges while hiding normally in 10 seconds. Would start to deplete when standing up. Would deplete in 10 seconds. You are still hidden while the hide bar depletes. Hide bar empty's at 50% depletion speed while not hidden(fireing)

    Enhanced Senses: Detects nearby enemies, vehicles and buildings, even those who are hidden. An arrow signifying enemy locations will appear on your minimap. Range is 50% greater then now. Has a small ring showing radius on minimap.

    Detection Jamming: Hides you and vehicles you drive from radars, cameras, comm targets and turrets.

    Silence Gear: Decreases weapon noise to 20% of regular. Removes muzzle flash. Running makes no sound. Still hides kill/death messages

    Vehicle Speed: This skill increases your vehicle's speed by 20%, its reload speed by 20% and its Re-arm speed by 50%.

    Innate Ability's

    Sabotage: Must be touching enemy building. Takes 2 seconds. Buildings health is reduced by 33%. Reduces the function depending on the building.

    -refinery - outputs half as many resources
    -barracks - spawning players receive half their total amount of health
    -radar - shows friendly units to the enemy instead of enemy units to friendlies
    -armory - ammo and health crates take twice as long to give ammo/health
    -repair bay - takes twice as long to repair a vehicle
    -vehicle factory - vehicles are built with half of their total health and armor
    -Turrets - Turret will stop tracking and fireing.

    Takes 33 Engineer tool to disable the effect.

    Stamina Recharge: Scout's stamina recharges Faster then the other classes.

    Moving accuracy: The scout suffers no additional accuracy penalty while moving. Standing accuracy is the same as running accuracy.

    Hide: An Innate hide. Is normal hide, but does not hide from turrets. show up on minimap for cameras

    Squad Leader Aura: 10% faster movement speed, untargetable by comms

    Squad Skills: Hide 5pts 30 seconds. Recon 2 pts, 30 seconds gives camera orange targets on everyone

    Rank Increase: The increasing of parts of the scout depending on amount of points. Similar to the current engi.
    Rank 1:-10 points : Sabotage speed +20% (20%) (1.66seconds)
    Rank 2:-20 points : Sabotage speed +20% (40%) (1.42 seconds)
    Rank 3:-30 points : Sabotage speed +20% (60%) (1.25 seconds)
    Rank 4:-40 points : Sabotage speed +20% (80%) (1.11 seconds)
    Rank 5:-50 points : Sabotage speed +20% (100%) (1 second) Concussion/Sticky bomb turret stun time +100% (2x) Binocs target count, cycle speed and duration +100%(2x)



    Helpful Extras

    Seismic throw distance reduced to sticky throw distance. *Maybe* increase damage to compensate and/or make seismics detonate mines. (makes engi's more vulnerable to turrets)

    Rifleman innate armour decreased slightly and digin % increased slightly. (makes rifleman stamina more important, or lack there of)

    ML turret damage and homing Increased, and increases more depending on turret level. (makes mls more of a threat)

    Decrease smg initial accuracy and recoil(smgs have better sustained accuracy)
     
  15. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Actually I have a balance I want to try and which I expect would work well. I was thinking have it be either a clone of the 50 cal/carbine respectively with the scope only allowing better visibility, or making it a mid-range 3 round burst gun with slightly lower accuracy but more damage per shot (because you shoot in bursts) than the carbine/50 cal. For this balance I also made the carbine into a single shot gun.

    That should make the scout a perfectly viable combat class because the range and would be sufficient to allow the scout to get kills like a rifleman, but the gun would lack the long range power of the rifleman guns, but would offset it with far superior visibility, so you can aim it much easier.

    A sniper rifle is silly but I don't see any problem with a zoomed rifle, which does not have to be a sniper rifle.

    The scripts I put together also have the SMGs being very effective in close quarters and while moving, so the scout would have effective close-in fast moving weapons (although the clip capacity stops them from killing too many people at once) as well as a very good (and pleasant to use) general purpose ranged weapon.

    As to your ability suggestions, the sensor based ones seem fine, although I am not convinced how helpful they'll be, the camera/radar function however does seem to be quite useful. I would however change the camera thing so that it isn't binocular powered, instead I would give the scout the engineer tool, maybe with a different colour screen/different writing, and have him be able to use charge to perform sensor pings and sabotage buildings, giving him a general purpose tool which can be used to add other functions to the class, like maybe showing turret coverage on the map, or activating a visual ping which flashes all enemy player models bright for a second, or disarming mines in an area, that sort of thing. You could also tie hide into it if you wanted, preventing camping with hide and a gun, but allowing it to be used to move around. It doesn't work like a normal engy tool either so it can't build/repair, except possibly the scout can very inefficiently heal himself and others using the tool. Basically just having this tool would give the scout the ability to do a lot of things in a squad, like clear mines, show enemies, blow up buildings (you could make sabotage do damage only while the tool is held on the building, so sabotaging an abandoned structure is easy, but you can't sabotage a base building because you'd be totally exposed and defenceless) and maybe have a limited medical ability, basically someone who, if you have them with you, you get more info, you can blow stuff up, and you can stay alive longer.

    This is coupled with a less durable, but quite competent combat class, and the scout tool abilities also compliment the scout's fighting style a lot, the burst rifle would work best if you know where the enemy is and you can get close enough to catch them alone and from cover, by the time they find you and retaliate, you should have gotten a couple of close-mid range bursts in, which should kill them, however the low clip capacity and lack of long range power would make it less practical as a direct combat weapon, however the scope would compliment the information based fighting ability and give it some use as a precision weapon for killing people in cover/targetting specific enemies, like engineers.

    I am not at all liking the ninja ability, that seems way overpowered, and too binary, if you're within hitting distance, you're dead, if you're not, you're alive. Seems silly, I much prefer the idea of just having good SMGs which become weak steadily but quickly.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
  16. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    Sorry for another wall of test, but I'm really want to give as much feedback as I can for the scout as I enjoy playing the scout a lot of the time, and i'd like to see it geared towards a more reconish role.

    Mashav's ideas with the little changes I suggested IMO are the perfect role for the scout. Anything I didn't comment on there I just really like, I only really commented on stuff I didn't like.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
  17. Omneh

    Omneh Member

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    I honestly think the scout should be geared towards being a fast, agile combat class that while lacking in survivability, has a number of abilities geared towards breaking defences, flanking enemies, creating confusion and destroying key structures.

    The scout would become the definative close combat class, relying on speed and stealth to flank and kill enemies with a powerful shotgun and when that fails, wielding an outdated but deadly sabre along with his pistol in melee combat. Mouse 1 would fire the pistol (the scout could get a special silenced pistol for additional awesome), and meleeing with mouse2 would be context sensitive, with sprinting forward while melee'ing causing the scout to impale the unlucky victim on his blade, dealing fatal damage to anyone who isn't a rifleman or using health upgrade. The scout can finish off impaled enemies with his pistol. Moving backwards while attacking with melee would perform an ambiguous move that can parry enemy melee strikes as well as deal damage. This, combined with his shotgun, would transform the scout into a close combat powerhouse, as well as making him rather fucking cool and unique. I mean, what other FPS set in the near future has swords?

    If the scout wants to sacrifice close combat dominance for longer range ability, he could have the option to take a light assault rifle equipped with a scope (something compact looking, along the lines of the SA80) that while lacking the stopping power of the rifleman's assault rifle, would be considerably more accurate, (although prolonged firing would cause the weapon to lose accuracy quickly, encouraging the player to burst over long distances) allowing the scout to pick off far away targets with a several careful bursts, a far better situation than instagib if the scout is lucky enough to get a headshot, or frustration for the scout as the scoped rifle is currently useless without exploiting for a much higher rate of fire. This light assault rifle would be rather impractical for direct combat however, where it will be outclassed by assault rifles and other weapons, making it best used from cover or behind your victim.

    Seismic Demolition Devices (SDD's) would occupy scout's third slot, devices that are capable of halving a building's health over 15 seconds before they run out of charge and detach from the building, to be picked up and recharged in the scouts inventory. The scout carries two of these devices, but their effect does not stack, meaning attaching two seismic charges to a building is a waste of time and charge. Better to wait until the first seismic device has run out of charge, then attach the next, or take the sabotage skill and destroy a building with a single device. The seismic device can additionally heavily damage and overheat vehicles it is attached to, shaking light vehicles to pieces given enough time. However, it is difficult to attach these devices to vehicles due to their setup time (the firing animation would be comparable in length to dropping a mine), and their effect is very noticeable, making it easy for a vehicle driver to jump out, and shoot the device to destroy it completely. This is also applicable to devices attached to buildings, meaning to scout must find ever more inventive locations to place these devices. As well as destructive capabilities, these devices would also create large amounts of dust, noise and visual distortion when activated, making them useful for disorientating, but not killing infantry. SDD's are thrown, and have a range between that of a normal grenade and a sticky. SDD's can almost instantly destroy wall sections and turrets by depleting only half of their charge.

    The scout would be able to choose between SDD's and Shock Mines, a specialised anti-infantry mine that kills with an enormous electric shock delivered through the foot of the victim. The scout can carry a large number of these mines, and as well as killing the victim when triggered, they also generate a flash that momentarily blinds nearby infantry, something which can be exploited to lure more victims into minefields. These mines are small and difficult to spot, although health upgrade can protect the player from a single mine. As well as being good at killing infantry, these mines can also momentarily stall enemy vehicles, and six mines can overheat for a short time. These mines are thrown, with range similar to normal grenades. They can be used to disable turrets. When an enemy soldier is killed by one of these mines, his body will jump around in a manner similar to combine soldiers killed by the super gravity gun in half life 2.

    Due to the scout gaining an effective anti-structure weapon in the form of the SDD, the sabotage skill will become a class specific ability instead of being innate, and will remain pretty much as it is now, allowing the scout to have some limited anti-structure capability with sabotage and be a little more versatile on the battlefield with shock mines, focus all out on anti-building duties with SDD's and sabotage, or focus elsewhere but simply not picking it as a skill.

    The scout would also benefit from innate speed upgrade and an increased rate of stamina regeneration, and his hide skill would remain as it is now. In addition, the scout would gain radar stealth and enhanced senses as innate skills, with the enhanced senses skill providing camera like targeting diamonds for teammates. A new skill would become available to the scout, a sensor jammer that causes turrets to have difficulty locking onto the scout or the scout's vehicle, and causes him to become immune to targets even when not hidden whether they be commander, camera or scout designated. A savvy squad leader can still issue attack orders on a scout with this skill however, and the scout is still just about visible on the minimap to another scout.

    These ideas, combined with megels sensor based abilities and chris's scout tool could turn the scout into a cool guy that doesn't afraid of anything, or rather a useful asset to a team that is not a bad thing if a lot of people play it.

    Also, swords. I'm being completely serious.

    Oh, and please don't call the scout special forces. Thats possibly the biggest noob magnet ever. (although I would secretly love it to be called special forces :D)
     
  18. Trickster

    Trickster Retired Developer

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    I like the sabotage idea you had a lot Omneh, for putting things on buildings and having to "collect" them so to speak. That really appeals to me in fact.

    The idea of having to place them, then collect.

    But I think they should do a set amount of damage, so it could take out an armoury in one go and stuff.

    EDIT: This suggestion comes from Sonecha, and I do like it. What if scouts could climb engy/comm placed walls?
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2009
  19. Chris0132'

    Chris0132' Developer

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    Exploitable perhaps, and potentially quite buggy, but if you could do it, it might be useful.

    Personally I'd suggest giving them the ability to quickly and stealthily get rid of them, like have it just fade out, climbing over would leave you rather exposed, and I don't think you can really phase through them.
     
  20. Firedrill

    Firedrill Member

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    i wanna ask with the dart thing is that for squadmates only and what if i dont want to shoot whatever he targets? and what if he hits my CV at the start arent they just going to rush arty and doom rains down?
     
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