noob friendly research tree (hope fully)

The commander can see the entire tree at any time to plan their strategy. Grey arrow show research paths whereas green arrows show prerequisites. This will effective make it impossible for the commander to research paper mediums while making learning the tree easier. I also feel this allows for more research stratigys as you may make paths to other techs shorter as you go Allowing for much faster adjustments to enemy strategys. And finally no more item less research.
So what changes do you guys think would be needed to improve this?

 

"noob friendly"?

I think that this tree is more complicated then the current tree. Only advantage is that the commander will see the complete tree. But if the developers add this to the GUI the current tree would be even more clear.

And I don't like that you have removed many options. Why not have paper mediums/heavies? On high resource maps this can work. Or research directly Rail/Nukes Heavies. On your tree this is impossible.
And what about APCs? Currently you can research many alternatives quite fast. But your tree will limit this to Gas Turbine+Absorbent Armor+Upgrades Grenades or DU APCs.

And the biggest issue is that there are way to many changes. When you don't get many (40+) testers to many regular test sessions it will take a very long time until this is balanced.

 

It would be more noob friendly if the first researches were bio engine and regen armor.

 

Actually, we need a new research tree anyway. And we had a lot of testers to get 2.25 out.

 

whell your assuming that the NF dont want rails. Also Think about what it would take to get both rails and nukes.... I think that time deter ant will help game play. Butgo ahead and draw on this if you want. I want more ideas.


"noob friendly?"
Yes seeing everything and making papers impossible is noob friendly. Some of you seem to prefer to have a list where everything is research able at all times. Could you imagine how repetitive that would make game play? I would like you people to think about your top three routes that you would take on this.

 

Why?

With 40+ testers I mean the numbers of testers for every session. My experience with test sessions is that there are mostly less the 10 testers present. And from these few testers always some guys just fool around so that I could only test some tank balance stuff with 2 vs 2.

Does the research tree need to be "noob friendly"? A noob just should not command in Empires. And if an experienced player is helping him the explanation of what to research is the smallest issue.

The only thing what should be improved for new players is the research menu so that you don't need a printable version any more. But this is independent from the research tree itself.

 

- Because physics rushing is still a viable option for BE

A good tree will allow for creative strategies (there was a reason it was called 2.24 physics edition) as well as minimizing the abstraction.
By abstraction, look at the current research tree from the view of a new player. If you ask them where to find any sort of armor, they will not know. If the research is set up with the categories of "armor" "engine" "chassis" "weapons" then ask the same question, it is clear that if you want to get armor, look in the armor tree.

No room for creativity
Huge amounts of abstraction

Not allowing paper tanks may be "noob friendly", but this will start cramping the vets ability to be creative with research.

 

Yes, you really need to play the game more if you say something like that .

 

For the love of god:
YES THE RESEARCH TREE NEEDS TO BE NOOB FRIENDLY! Research is the basic foundation for the game to flow. AND NO saying that noobs should not command does not solve the problem, never has and never will. Even if you played FPS-Empires for six months before first commanding you will still be overwhelmed by your job with the current research tree.

If Empires should ever advance beyond the 200 hardcore vets community, research must be as easy as eating sliced bread.

 

This is a good idea in theory but it limits people on what they can research even more so than the current scheme of things. For instance, nabbing upgraded grenades before getting DU and PMG? What the heck? Why would I want to waste res on getting a almost never used upgrade and alter one of my strategies to get to DU? This also leans in BE's favor as stated previously, with the rail zooming strategy. I COULD see something like this working, but it would need to be redesigned.

 

As previously mentioned I don't see that it's much of an improvement over the existing one.

 

We can do better and it will add to the game, allowing more strategies and making for a more dynamic battleground.

Like I said, 2.25 had a lot of testers (once they opened testing up). More than 40? No. More than 20 and occasionally 40? yes. For the first time in a long time, I saw people testing for a long time on the servers, like we used to in 1.08 - newbies who were interested in seeing development and spent 8 hours on the servers.

/sigh

Like I said, sometimes I really hate what you say. That's just foolish.

I actually don't like this tech tree - it doesn't make a lot of sense. I read the top line and just went "wtf?" to myself. Still, the thing that is good is that it's a flat laid-out style removing (like vess said) item-less research. That's the style we need to go for, so people can see immediately what their researching leads to and not get confused by misleading "open this first" researches, making them think they've researched something when they have not.

 

Lets see some more flow charts then!!!!!!!!!!!! as many ass possible!

 

You want me to design a research tree? I was under the impression that no one was that interested in redoing the tree, and when they do it a suggestion I would make wouldn't be considered, but feedback would be like it usually is.

Why do you think I don't do more stuff like some people here? Making a system and suchlike, doesn't usually get in, it just gets critical feedback which helps when designing the new system. Although...I could do one just for fun, I still think we need a few more weapons in there - at least 1 more 2 slot cannon (or redesign plasma) and 1 more 3 slot cannon, 1 more 3-slot ml. Possibly 1 or 2 1-slot cn additions.

Edit: If I do one, i'm more likely to preserve the tree choice at the beginning and make it tie together easier in the middle. That's more of the idea I had for CT...so you could have choice, but the trees are flexible in the middle and it doesn't take years to get into a new tree.

 

So I made a flowchart of peoples reactions to the current research tree.

 

I find it funny that mah scripts have the weapons you talk about. Anyways, enough whoring that.

I like the research tree as is. It really does enable for some creative research paths, but it needs to be more obvious what everything does. It also needs the ability to get by the research the more easily. Something like decreasing research time 3% for each minute of research already completed.

 

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/1415325/empiresmod/workdocs/research path3.png

this is what i am currently working on, every research path is finished and researching heavy tanks once will disable all the other heavy tank researchables for example

only thing i am missing atm is weapons

 

It's not funny, I wouldn't say. Lots of people have weapons like that, heck weedy had a whole minimod with stuff, so no, it's not unique...what we do need though is to decide on implementation of some of those, 'cos we really need a few more weapons to add depth to combat.

 

looking forward to seeing it. I like that concept. Mine was far less respectful to the branch system. I found it got in the way of good mix and matching.